Gerard Posted March 9, 2012 Share #1 Posted March 9, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hey there. Just seeking some feedback on how desirable consecutive positive integer serial numbers are with collectors? As in, serials that might run; 123456... after their batch number? I recently purchased a mint MDa and noticed it has such a serial. Thought this must be relatively rare (I'm sure there is someone out there with better math than my own), and was pretty astonished to see it. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 9, 2012 Posted March 9, 2012 Hi Gerard, Take a look here Consecutive Serial Numbers. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted March 9, 2012 Share #2 Posted March 9, 2012 Some Leitz collectors DO feel the magic of numbers... ... in strict terms of value, surely a pair of the same item with consecutive s/n is undoubtly valuable... and often some particular numbers (consecutive, or nnn.mmm ,,,) du fetch additional values on auctions. For personal reasons, myself, having not a IIIa, would like a lot to have it with s/n 301256, and even more with the 301256 Summar... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2012 Share #3 Posted March 11, 2012 Not being a collector, I'm surprised to read, that the same serial number was given to a body and a lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 12, 2012 Share #4 Posted March 12, 2012 Not being a collector, I'm surprised to read, that the same serial number was given to a body and a lens. Nothing strange... from the start of Leica with interchangable lenses and standardized mount (to say, the model known as "Leica Standard" or model E), bodies and lenses followed separate factory identifications , each one based on simple numbering in progression. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2012 Share #5 Posted March 12, 2012 Would have thought, that there are a lot more lenses than camera bodies. Then how come recent M9 and wide angle Summilux lenses also have serial numbers at the beginning of the four million range? My understanding is, that they make batches of every item and reserve a given ammount of serial numbers for these copies. Maybe it was different in the LTM era. That historians and collectors know best. Just as a matter of curiosity, since I am not a "numerologist", yes I'm not even a collector yet . I'd buy an old Leica with the serial number of 260657 or any combination of these pairs of numbers, as long as it can take pictures and the price was reasonable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 12, 2012 Share #6 Posted March 12, 2012 Would have thought, that there are a lot more lenses than camera bodies. Then how come recent M9 and wide angle Summilux lenses also have serial numbers at the beginning of the four million range? .... Well, one must keep in mind that until some decades ago all was rather simple : - BODIES (LTM - M - R) which their s/n (of course a M4, say, couldn't have the same s/n of a Leicaflex). - LENSES : same as above, no superposition of s/n between lenses for different platforms... one lens out of Wetzlar = one unique number (*) - For evaluating a bodies/lenses ratio one would also take in account that some lenses (even common) are unrelated to bodies ... example, the Focotar lenses for enlargers. Just a pair of aproximated but significant figures : - Before the (tragical) complications of War, bodies reached around 350.000 and lenses 540.000 - In a postwar golden age for Leica (1960) bodies reached the 1.000.000 with lenses at 1.810.000 - And just 5 years later (1965) they were almost at the 2:1 "ratio" (1.130.000 vs. 2.150.000) But at a certain time, Leica started to complicate its product range... there were a number of cameras with fixed lenses : Film compacts like the "Mini", Digitals like Digilux 2... it seems that even the "Panaleicas" like V-Lux do bear a "Leica numbering" (I am simply looking at the well known Puts' lists) : of course this "un-balances" a lot some "historical ratio" like, say "2,47 lenses for each body", or similar figure... (*) Of course, with small exceptions : the Hologons with Zeiss numbering... the 3rd party outsourced lenses (Schneider, Minolta, Angenieux...) with (or without) Leitz numbering... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted March 12, 2012 Share #7 Posted March 12, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hey there. Just seeking some feedback on how desirable consecutive positive integer serial numbers are with collectors? As in, serials that might run; 123456... after their batch number http://www.digoliardi.net/consecutives_top.jpg Those are consecutively numbered cameras. Pretty ugly, eh? Not worth much, I suspect. I have a Linhof #4321 - nobody seemed interested in the numbering. ("4" is a particularly unlucky number in Chinese culture because its pronunciation is almost the same as "death") Google for "Lucky Numbers", paying special attention to Chinese concepts. Prestige cameras with particularly lucky numbers sometimes go for amazing prices. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted March 12, 2012 Share #8 Posted March 12, 2012 When I bought my M3 kit in '68 cameras had just passed 1 m, the shop had a batch of about 20 M3s, but no consecutive numbers, I picked two 'interesting' ones, 1158466 and -677. Lenses had just passed 2m Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 12, 2012 Share #9 Posted March 12, 2012 In Rogliatti's: THE FIRST FIFTY YEARS, second edition from 1977, I read that at the end of 1970 the body serial number was at 1 266 000 with M and SL all in one line. From the same book the lens numbers of the production year 1969 went from 2 312 751 to 2 384 700. Rogiatti is not stating here, if not only the M but also the R lenses are included. Since you mention Focotars, why exclude Colorplans et al for the Pradovits? But even without these two marginal product lines the overall figure is astonishing. I got my M9 3 904 xyz and the Summilux 24mm 4 080 xyz in 2010. I only mention them because there is no doubt that they were brand new. With or without enlarger and slide projector lenses we have about the same number of camera bodies and lenses = a ratio of practically 1:1 ?? Can't believe Cosina and before them Carl Zeiss, Nikon, Canon and of cause Minolta sold LTM and M-mount lenses to bring the ratio to what is in everybody's photo-bag. Or is it, that M (and SL+R) bodies (already in the film age) compared to lenses were extremely resistant but didn't have the legendary longevity? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UliWer Posted March 12, 2012 Share #10 Posted March 12, 2012 ... I got my M9 3 904 xyz and the Summilux 24mm 4 080 xyz in 2010. I only mention them because there is no doubt that they were brand new. With or without enlarger and slide projector lenses we have about the same number of camera bodies and lenses = a ratio of practically 1:1 ?? Can't believe Cosina and before them Carl Zeiss, Nikon, Canon and of cause Minolta sold LTM and M-mount lenses to bring the ratio to what is in everybody's photo-bag. Or is it, that M (and SL+R) bodies (already in the film age) compared to lenses were extremely resistant but didn't have the legendary longevity? The serial numbers of cameras and lenses don't give you precise ideas of how many items were produced. Leitz/Leica used to define a sequel of numbers first and then produced the items. So it could happen that numbers xxx0001-xxx1000 were reserved for a camera/lens but only a few hundred produced. The rest of numbers in the sequel was "lost". The compact cameras with fixed lens have no special number for the lens, but a Leica camera number, even when they are produced by Panasonic. So without exact knowledge of the produced quantities of either cameras or lenses you can't draw any conclusion from the serial numbers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 13, 2012 Share #11 Posted March 13, 2012 I have a Linhof #4321 - nobody seemed interested in the numbering. ("4" is a particularly unlucky number in Chinese culture because its pronunciation is almost the same as "death") Google for "Lucky Numbers", paying special attention to Chinese concepts. Prestige cameras with particularly lucky numbers sometimes go for amazing prices. Few i-phone 4 bought by Chinese and not much hope for Nikon to sell any D4 there? _______ The M body to Leitz/Leica lenses ratio of ca. 1:2 well into the Asphere and digital age stands to be contradicted. Wilson wrote, that a Leica LTM or an M3 cost as much as a basic car in the US. It would be interesting to read about M3/M2 DM prices compared to the ubiquitous Käfer during the sixties. How many amateurs then could afford an extra lens? While pros where proudly ornated with multiple body-lens combinations back then. Regarding M8&9, couldn't it be, that vintage glass and Cosina lenses come more to use among all modern Leica fans than among posting forum members? My hunch would have been, that Leica sells about 3 lenses per body. So if the correct number is more like two lenses per body all through the last 5 decades, is that so relevant? The information here, that almost 8 million bodies or lenses have been sold so far (versus 4 as I thought) is interesting, though Japanese numbers are so much higher. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 13, 2012 Share #12 Posted March 13, 2012 ....The information here, that almost 8 million bodies or lenses have been sold so far (versus 4 as I thought) is interesting, though Japanese numbers are so much higher. True... but for us Leica passionates, the look of a TOWER of around 4 MILLION LEICA LENSES, ONE OVER THE OTHER , FROM THE EARTH TO THE HIGH SKY, is a powerful and intriguing thought... And about bodies, 4 Millions side by side... a circle around the Earth at Equator - plus or minus... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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