chris_tribble Posted March 8, 2012 Share #1 Posted March 8, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) LR 4's worth the upgrade for this alone. Compare the best I could get with Process 2010 (the shot wasn't a keeper because of the competition - but it's a good example of the problem working with very variable stage lighting). With LR3 the image was dead in the water - highlights unrecoverably blown. NOT so in LR4. Now useable. See below. 1st Process 2010 / 2nd Process 2012. Hooray! BTW - I also like the look of the lens profiles. Good news all round Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/174400-lr-4-highlight-priority-process-2012/?do=findComment&comment=1948065'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 8, 2012 Posted March 8, 2012 Hi chris_tribble, Take a look here LR 4 Highlight Priority / Process 2012. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
01af Posted March 8, 2012 Share #2 Posted March 8, 2012 With Lr 3 the image was dead in the water—highlights unrecoverably blown. Not so in Lr 4. Now useable. See below. 1st Process 2010 / 2nd Process 2012. Huh? I don't see any difference with regards to blown highlights. The 2nd image is a bit darker overall and has slightly more saturated colours ... which leads to nicer skin tones. But the blown parts are exactly the same in both. I'm sure you can develop this picture in Lr 3 (Process 2010) with only minor effort to look just the same as the Lr 4 (Process 2012) picture. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickan1 Posted March 8, 2012 Share #3 Posted March 8, 2012 I agree with Chris based on my own experiences with a couple of landscape images that I reworked with process 2012. There was a very noticeable improvement in the highlights. I was able to get the cloud formations visible in parts that was just white before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
iforum Posted March 9, 2012 Share #4 Posted March 9, 2012 01af is pretty spot on........what's blown is blown in black and white you end up with very light greys. Try printing and the foibles will be exposed. Still it is useful for those that do not push for high end results during post processing results and printing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted March 9, 2012 Share #5 Posted March 9, 2012 I don't see any difference with regards to blown highlights. Look at the area around the jawline, the improvement is obvious on this crappy laptop I'm using. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 9, 2012 Share #6 Posted March 9, 2012 01AF has a point. In image # 1 the highlights are clipped. Notice the little blue triangle on the Histogram? Still, I find this an interesting observation. I'll download 6.7 and try it in CS5. When I find the time.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share #7 Posted March 9, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) A general comment: 1/ In LR3, try as I might (and I have spent some time with this program) the image was a lost cause. 2/ in LR4 with combination of the new Highlights and Whites sliders made the image usable. 01af - agreed, v2 isn't perfect, but IMHO it's an improvement I couldn't have achieved with LR3. AND consider the whole image. Version one wouldn't be printable / usable. Version 2 retains enough information to deliver a plausible print. Worth the (very reasonably priced) upgrade. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted March 9, 2012 Share #8 Posted March 9, 2012 Look at the area around the jawline, the improvement is obvious on this crappy laptop I'm using. There is no blown areas anywhere near the lady's chin or jawline. The skin tone is pretty bright in the first picture (and less bright in the second) but not blown in either. If you want to see a blown highlight then look at the lady's nose. There you can see a small highlight that is blown in both pictures equally. Lr 4 won't recover that because blown is blown. ... v2 isn't perfect, but IMHO it's an improvement I couldn't have achieved with Lr 3. It's an improvement indeed, but I'm still not convinced it would not have been possible in Lr 3. Maybe it's not as straightforward and takes more effort to do—but it sure is not impossible. Maybe Chris can upload the DNG file somewhere for us to try our hand ... Don't get me wrong—I wholeheartedly agree that Lr 4 is an improvement over Lr 3 in many, many ways and definitely worth the upgrade price and then some. I just disagree with the notion that there were "blown highlights" in Chris' photograph that Lr 3 cannot recover but Lr 4 can. Bright highlights—yes. Blown highlights—no. There are very small portions of highlights that actually are blown but those don't get recovered in either version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share #9 Posted March 9, 2012 01af - interesting points - and agreed that the tip of the nose is blown and unrecoverable. I have posted two versions (process 2010 / 2012) to DropBox. Both are out of camera with only the default import settings that I use with LR. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/862415/L1015276_process_2010.dng http://dl.dropbox.com/u/862415/L1015276_process_2012.dng Interested to see what you can get out of them. Best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
01af Posted March 9, 2012 Share #10 Posted March 9, 2012 I have posted two versions (process 2010/2012) to DropBox. Both are out of camera with only the default import settings that I use with LR. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/862415/L1015276_process_2010.dng http://dl.dropbox.com/u/862415/L1015276_process_2012.dng Interested to see what you can get out of them. Thank you. I have downloaded the PV 2010 file and tinkered with it. See below. There is no blown areas anywhere near the lady's chin or jawline. The skin tone is pretty bright in the first picture (and less bright in the second) but not blown in either. [...] Bright highlights—yes. Blown highlights—no. Umm—I was wrong ... but at least not totally wrong The bright skin areas around the chin, cheek, and jawline indeed have one channel blown (the red one). The even brighter highlight in the nose has two channels blown (red and blue), and the third here is very close to the maximum. So—highlights can be slightly blown (one channel at the maximum), severely blown (two channels at the maximum), or totally blown (all three channels at the maximum). And it seems that Lr 4 can take better advantage of the residual information in the 'slightly blown' highlights than Lr 3 did. Below are the results of my efforts to recreate Chris' Lr 4 image in Lr 3. Or, uh, actually I didn't use Lr 3 but ACR 6.7 Beta (PV 2010) ... which however is the same raw engine as in Lr 3. The trick is to select not too low a colour temperature (very low values tend to blow the blue channel in the resulting RGB) and to use a custom tone curve which limits the RGB maximum and at the same time slightly lightens the shadows and mid-tones. I used the curve [(0, 0); (64, 80); (255, 208)]. I also lowered the overall contrast which on the computer screen results in significantly less 'pop' but looks more natural and will print better. My result is not quite a good as the Lr 4 result with regard to the skin tones but pretty close, and not too shabby overall IMHO ... however it was quite some work to arrive there. So the bottom line is—while Lr 3 can give very good results if you try hard enough, Lr 4 does yield even better results, and much quicker so, with far less effort. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/174400-lr-4-highlight-priority-process-2012/?do=findComment&comment=1949048'>More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 9, 2012 Author Share #11 Posted March 9, 2012 01laf - an interesting exchange. Thanks. re LR4, I've now had a go with the new local correction brushes which allow local WB adjustment - I think this is really neat. My last word on what wasn't a very good photo in the first place below . First a screen shot of the location and size of one of the correction brushes, second the final take on the image. LR4 gets my vote! Thank you Adobe. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/174400-lr-4-highlight-priority-process-2012/?do=findComment&comment=1949209'>More sharing options...
antistatic Posted March 10, 2012 Share #12 Posted March 10, 2012 Won't you guide my sleigh tonight? I agree that LR4 can retrieve highlights (and shadows) and save photos that I could never get to work in LR3. Now if only SFxP plugin would work, I could dump LR3 all together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaybob Posted March 10, 2012 Share #13 Posted March 10, 2012 As more time goes by I think we are going to find that this 2012 process has more to do with correcting the middle of the histogram than the right or the left. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_newell Posted March 15, 2012 Share #14 Posted March 15, 2012 I'm pulling up a chair hoping this thread keeps shedding light (pardon the pun) on LR4. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nggalai Posted March 15, 2012 Share #15 Posted March 15, 2012 As more time goes by I think we are going to find that this 2012 process has more to do with correcting the middle of the histogram than the right or the left. That’s my impression, too. Point in case, the revamped Clarity tool quickly blocks up shadows and blows highlights, but the oomph it adds to the middle tones is quite something to behold. Still, while Clarity 20-30 was totally usable with Process 2010 (for me), the same values with Process 2012 are an aquired taste. Personally, I like the new layout with whites, blacks, highlights, and shadows. It’s more akin to how I think about zones of an image than the old slider system (recovery, fill light, blacks). Only issue I have had over the past few days with LR4 final – adjustment brushes are wonky on my system. The layer mask sometimes isn’t displayed at all, sometimes pops up sluggishly when hovering the mouse pointer over the adjustment anchor, and results aren’t as predictable as with LR3. This is on an iMac running 10.7.3 Lion. Still, I am re-considering my moving to CaptureOne a while ago. Results with M9 files are much better with Process 2012 and Process 2010; skin tones especially improved a lot. I don’t care much for Lightroom’s metadata handling, and not at all for Blurb integration or their GPS/Map tool, but still – Lightroom 4 is a big step forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted March 15, 2012 Share #16 Posted March 15, 2012 Excellent work Chris, and you chose a great example to test it on. It just goes to re-inforce the motto 'never delete a photograph', you never know what software is just around the corner. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_tribble Posted March 21, 2012 Author Share #17 Posted March 21, 2012 Excellent work Chris, and you chose a great example to test it on. It just goes to re-inforce the motto 'never delete a photograph', you never know what software is just around the corner. Steve Given the proliferation of images that digital produces (and I never - really, never) shoot in "burst" mode, not sure if I could deal with the overhead! And in fact, this image was very weak compared to others in the series. Still - glad I retained it just to be able to show how useful LR4 is (despite some rough edges as others are reporting)... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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