delander † Posted March 7, 2012 Share #1 Posted March 7, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I thought I would post this here although the mods may wish to move it to the people subforum. Anyway the point is that I have become quite interested in street photography and often take photographs such as the one here, a moment in time, some would call it a ‘grab’ shot. My photographs often turn out to be quite complex, with a lot going on in them, apparently lacking any composition. When I entered this photo in a local competition it was not really appreciated by the judge, they tend to go for more simple images, one’s which give an instant visual gratification. I’m beginning to believe that I have little comprehension of composition. The streets are not like they were in the days of HCB, they are so crowded so I find it difficult to create more simple photographs. I seem to be flogging a dead horse and I wondered what others think? Jeff Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/174311-i-just-take-photographs/?do=findComment&comment=1946835'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 7, 2012 Posted March 7, 2012 Hi delander †, Take a look here I just take photographs. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stuny Posted March 7, 2012 Share #2 Posted March 7, 2012 This works I believe because of your POV, expalining why the crowd is where it is, and the steam rising from the grill adds to the composition. In ways it is an atypical composiiton, which may have put off the judges, but the POV and moment work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share #3 Posted March 7, 2012 Thank you Stuart. This is the complete photo which I felt was necessary to tell the story, The judge did not like the backs of the people serving or the girl on the right seemingly looking into the camera. Some 'judges' seem to have got it into their heads that subjects in street photography should not be looking at the camera. In this picture I dont think she actually is. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpalme Posted March 7, 2012 Share #4 Posted March 7, 2012 Since you seem to be looking for an honest opinion.. To me it just looks like a simple snapshot with nothing interesting. What is the subject? I think someone looking at the camera can be ok depending on the photo.. in this case it does not work. I can't say I can do any better but just an opinion. Practice practice practice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted March 7, 2012 Share #5 Posted March 7, 2012 I see no problem with the composition. On the contrary, it's very balanced with the cooks on both sides, the grill at the bottom and the canvas along the top forming a frame for the people. But as a contest image, I don't think there's enough interest to make it a winner. Good street photography generally has a clear and simple message or point of view and I think that's lacking here. So I'd call it a good photograph, but not a great one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
likalar Posted March 7, 2012 Share #6 Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) <<...anyway the point is that I have become quite interested in street photography and often take photographs such as the one here, a moment in time, some would call it a ‘grab’ shot. My photographs often turn out to be quite complex, with a lot going on in them, apparently lacking any composition. When I entered this photo in a local competition it was not really appreciated by the judge, they tend to go for more simple images, one’s which give an instant visual gratification. I’m beginning to believe that I have little comprehension of composition. The streets are not like they were in the days of HCB, they are so crowded so I find it difficult to create more simple photographs. I seem to be flogging a dead horse and I wondered what others think?..>> Well, that you asked is a good start. If I may: Yes, your photo is quite busy, but that is the nature of fairs and street markets. A busy shot of the crowd waiting for burgers won't hold interest because it is so ordinary. It is well exposed, sharp, and the colors are good, but beyond that, there's not much to make me stay but for a brief glance. Had the chef been displaying an unusual talent (flipping 3 burgers at the same time), or if a customer in a clown suit was dripping ketchup on her blouse while screaming at her husband, I would have stuck around a bit longer. You and your camera have the ability to isolate the subject. It might mean getting closer. It might mean picking simpler locations to shoot. It might mean a different lens or aperture settings. Practice developing skills that direct the viewer to what is the subject of your photo. Yes, having a subject of interest is usually important too. If you enjoy entering contests, please keep doing so. If possible, show additional shots to the other participants whose work you admire to get their feedback. The learning curve never stops. Over time, with lots of practice, you'll get better at making photos that stand apart from the simple "grab". That's what the judges are after. If, however, the photo above really pleases you, then stand by it, enjoy it, and put it on your wall. For many, self-satisfaction is reward enough. Best wishes for success. I hope you'll post more. Larry - Edited March 7, 2012 by likalar Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share #7 Posted March 7, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Since you seem to be looking for an honest opinion.. To me it just looks like a simple snapshot with nothing interesting. What is the subject? I think someone looking at the camera can be ok depending on the photo.. in this case it does not work. I can't say I can do any better but just an opinion. Practice practice practice. I'm pleasd to get opinions. The subjects are the various people waiting for their cheeseburgers, specifically the girl in magenta in the centre. It is a moment, she doesn't always have that expression. The rest is to provide the environment and tell the story. From this point of view I thought the photo was quite interesting. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share #8 Posted March 7, 2012 I see no problem with the composition. On the contrary, it's very balanced with the cooks on both sides, the grill at the bottom and the canvas along the top forming a frame for the people. But as a contest image, I don't think there's enough interest to make it a winner. Good street photography generally has a clear and simple message or point of view and I think that's lacking here. So I'd call it a good photograph, but not a great one. Marc, thanks for the opinion which I value, I dont seem to be able to generate photos with a clear and simple message. My photos tend to be messy as this one is, but I seem to see that way. I remember seeing this and thinking 'there is a lot to photograph there' and therefore a lot of interest, somethings to discover when you look at it more than once. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share #9 Posted March 7, 2012 Well, that you asked is a good start. If I may: Yes, your photo is quite busy, but that is the nature of fairs and street markets. A busy shot of the crowd waiting for burgers won't hold interest because it is so ordinary. It is well exposed, sharp, and the colors are good, but beyond that, there's not much to make me stay but for a brief glance. Had the chef been displaying an unusual talent (flipping 3 burgers at the same time), or if a customer in a clown suit was dripping ketchup on her blouse while screaming at her husband, I would have stuck around a bit longer. You and your camera have the ability to isolate the subject. It might mean getting closer. It might mean picking simpler locations to shoot. It might mean a different lens or aperture settings. Practice developing skills that direct the viewer to what is the subject of your photo. Yes, having a subject of interest is usually important too. If you enjoy entering contests, please keep doing so. If possible, show additional shots to the other participants whose work you admire to get their feedback. The learning curve never stops. Over time, with lots of practice, you'll get better at making photos that stand apart from the simple "grab". That's what the judges are after. If, however, the photo above really pleases you, then stand by it, enjoy it, and put it on your wall. For many, self-satisfaction is reward enough. Best wishes for success. I hope you'll post more. Larry - Thanks Larry for your opinion, also valued. I suppose I'm trying to get others to see like I do, and that is probably not possible. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share #10 Posted March 7, 2012 Another one from the same day, not quite a clown. There is a story here: the man on the left is making sure he puts the costume on and starts earning some money. This is a simple image but I still prefer the first. Jeff Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/174311-i-just-take-photographs/?do=findComment&comment=1947125'>More sharing options...
likalar Posted March 7, 2012 Share #11 Posted March 7, 2012 Hahaaa! I really like this photograph! The look of the clown is priceless: "I have to really wear that?". But the clincher for me is the blasé guy in the center, himself almost a sad clown, slumping posture, unimpressed by any of it. Nicely done! Maybe make a new thread of this shot? Larry 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Allsopp Posted March 7, 2012 Share #12 Posted March 7, 2012 From my point of view the left of the picture contributes nothing and therefore, as any judge will tell you detracts. No one to the left of the girl in sunglasses can be seen properly being obscured. Crop them out and it becomes more focused. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! But that is just my take, I hope you don't mind. You may have got a better viewpoint just to the right of the lady chef looking alonng the row of customers; if you prefocus and hold the camera at waist level and appear to be looking at the goods when you take the picture the crowd are less likely to notice your intentions. Yes, you will mis-focus sometimes but those that work will have a more natural look. Remember also that club judges are totally inconsistent I have entered a photo in one salon and it blanked only to win a prize another. Ask 10 judges to give their opinion and you will get 11 answers - assuming you ask one twice:rolleyes:) As regards the streets being more crowded - get out earlier! Finally take images to please yourself that's all that matters unless you want to be paid for what you do, then you will have to please someone else. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! But that is just my take, I hope you don't mind. You may have got a better viewpoint just to the right of the lady chef looking alonng the row of customers; if you prefocus and hold the camera at waist level and appear to be looking at the goods when you take the picture the crowd are less likely to notice your intentions. Yes, you will mis-focus sometimes but those that work will have a more natural look. Remember also that club judges are totally inconsistent I have entered a photo in one salon and it blanked only to win a prize another. Ask 10 judges to give their opinion and you will get 11 answers - assuming you ask one twice:rolleyes:) As regards the streets being more crowded - get out earlier! Finally take images to please yourself that's all that matters unless you want to be paid for what you do, then you will have to please someone else. ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/174311-i-just-take-photographs/?do=findComment&comment=1947175'>More sharing options...
delander † Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share #13 Posted March 7, 2012 Thank you Bill, actually the crop you have suggested is exactly what I submitted for judging. But I now think the whole picture is the better image, because it is more balanced. One could crop left and right but then no one would know who or what the girl in the middle is laughing at. I could crop out the top but then I would lose the lights which I like. That is my problem I hate to lose a feature of a photograph. I can see the tree but want to see the wood also, so to speak! Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted March 7, 2012 Share #14 Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Your first photo is very busy and is a challenge for the viewer because I find myself searching for something that I never find. For me, the busy nature of the photo isn't bad per se, but it needs a payoff somewhere. An expression, juxtaposition, a contradiction even if that payoff is hidden in the crowd. But I don't find it in this photo, so ot necomes disappointing. The 2nd composition, however has much more going for it. A clown without his disguise and instead wearing an expression, a man walking by seemingly uninterested, patterns in the background and the removal of color which might have distracted from the more interesting elements. It is a fun image that gives some latitude for the viewer's imagination. Edit: after looking at the second one again, I like it even more. It appears to be a boy wearing a Minnie Mouse costume looking at it as if he is fed up with himself for masquerading as a girl mouse. Love it. Edited March 7, 2012 by kdriceman Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share #15 Posted March 7, 2012 I understand but would say that the girl in the centre wearing magenta coloured top is in fact a centre point of interest, and if you then look around there is more to discover. The second image is what I call a 'quick visual fix' but to me at least lacks staying power. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted March 7, 2012 Share #16 Posted March 7, 2012 I might have been tempted to have a little smaller DOF so you could have the 'glow' and kept the subject in focus, not sure if the whole scene was the subject of the girl laughing. For me it lacks a little 'focus' or humour, the slightly busy or complex background could then support not detract Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted March 7, 2012 Share #17 Posted March 7, 2012 I understand but would say that the girl in the centre wearing magenta coloured top is in fact a centre point of interest, and if you then look around there is more to discover. The second image is what I call a 'quick visual fix' but to me at least lacks staying power. Jeff Yes,I thought she probably was the subject. And I looked all through the photo, but nothing really grabbed me. Perhaps emphasizing her more with the use of DoF or composing her to the left or right would help. I have a short attention span, so I didn't find much for me in the photo. For someone else the photo may work. It happens to me all the time. I fall in love with some images that nobody else likes ad others I keep because my wife likes (even though I'm about ready to trash it) and everyone seems to love it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 7, 2012 Share #18 Posted March 7, 2012 (edited) Well...... judging photo competitions strikes me as very akin to making decisions about art.... and you know where that rather delicate subject takes us...... .... here in the UK we have several 'art' prizes which are routinely awarded for work which most of the sane majority of the population would consider hardly worth the title of 'art' at all.... There are a tiny % of photos which just jump out at you and 'speak' to everyone.... a larger proportion touch a spot in some but not others .... and the vast majority are wonderful only to the guy behind the viewfinder...... I'm not embarrassed to admit that in 40 years of photography I have not a single shot that I could honestly shoehorn into the first category and precious few that creep into the second.... It's very interesting to look at the Guardian 'Camera Club's' regular 'my best shot' feature by well recognised mainstream photographers ..... the results are often very surprising .....and rely more on what the photo means to the person that took it than it's photographic or artistic merit (whatever that is ....) Take photos that please you...... and if someone else likes them as well, then thats a bonus...... If you want to enter photo competitions you will have to 'play the game' and produce what you think the judges want, rather than what is actually good in your eyes.... Edited March 7, 2012 by thighslapper 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPizzzle Posted March 8, 2012 Share #19 Posted March 8, 2012 IMO the second photograph is more interesting and tells more of a story. It causes me to want to know more about the story and works my imagination. The first photograph, although nothing wrong with it, it did not lead me to inquire further or hold my interest. On a more positive note, you do have a good eye, and should be proud of your work and for taking risks. I'm trying to get into street photography more and am in the process of overcoming the initial anxiety that comes with that. So i'm deff envious of your "courage" in going out and shooting people! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpalme Posted March 8, 2012 Share #20 Posted March 8, 2012 I like the second one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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