gyoung Posted July 31, 2012 Share #21 Posted July 31, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Actually its interesting to read the lens reviews at Photozone, for instance, the 20mm and the zoom for my G1 do produce excellent results, but are dependent on software to do it. Better software engineers than optical designers, but means good quality at the cheaper end of the market Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 31, 2012 Posted July 31, 2012 Hi gyoung, Take a look here Panasonic and Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
250swb Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share #22 Posted July 31, 2012 Leica and especially Zeiss have uniquely trained craftsmen (takes 42 months - show me another optics company that does this investment) collaborating closely with engineers. Ever wondered why Carl Zeiss out-classed Nikon and Canon with the last generation of semiconductor-optics? Why they don't outsource their know-how to China? I seriously hope both companies continue to invest into production and design "Made in Germany" to give us unique product quality. Hmm, yes but a large proportion of the current Zeiss rangefinder and SLR/DSLR lenses are made by Cosina Voigtlander, only a few of the more specialist type being made 'in house'. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted August 1, 2012 Share #23 Posted August 1, 2012 Because Zeiss isn't particulary interested in the consumer market (I hope the extreme success of Leica with >>3k€-designs changes that). The consumer lenses are not only made by Cosina (or Sony), they're also made according to their abilities and therefore are at a lower price-point, technological standard and optical/mechanical quality - which is a shame IMHO because Canon & Nikon makes decent lenses as well and Zeiss doesn't have to ruin it's brand with Cosina-made products... Back on-topic: Zeiss has unique staff (training), experience and production/design-technology which cannot be copied by any of their customers - (although to a lesser degree) the same is true for Leica. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 1, 2012 Share #24 Posted August 1, 2012 Zeiss doesn't have to ruin it's brand with Cosina-made products... It does if that's the way that its parent company wants to run its business. Zeiss are not masters of their own destiny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share #25 Posted August 1, 2012 which is a shame IMHO because Canon & Nikon makes decent lenses as well and Zeiss doesn't have to ruin it's brand with Cosina-made products... . It is self evident that Zeiss are interested in the consumer market, and it is a market they wouldn't have otherwise. If they have no capacity to do it in-house outsourcing is a modern and sophisticated way to generate business in markets that a company can't directly respond to. Everybody is doing it. Epson make the EVF's for Olympus, Panasonic and Leica, and Sony manufacture the new sensor for the Olympus OMD, a camera competitor! Much more goes on in secret. Having a little bit of the market is better than having none of the market. I think the Zeiss range of lenses are seen as a premium brand, and the fact that Zeiss make no fuss over where a lens is manufactured other than 'Made in.....' should tell you they don't feel there is an upper and a lower stand in the brand. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted August 1, 2012 Share #26 Posted August 1, 2012 Have Zeiss introduced any new M lenses in the last 5 years? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted August 2, 2012 Share #27 Posted August 2, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Zeiss has the most advanced technology for optical systems in-house, from sourcing glass (Schott is part of the Zeiss foundation), to grinding/polishing/coating/measuring and making extraordinary mechanics... They dominate the lithography, high-end microscopy, optical measurement and cinematography-market. They make lenses with f1.2 which are sharper than the very best Leica-lenses, a 1700mm f4 medium format monster, a nearly distortion-free 112° ultrawide with 24 lens elements. Why? Because some sheik or one f their partners (ARRI) convinced them to. But when it comes to the photographic market, where all of their former customers vanished, they put their brand name on partly 30 year old designs made by a manufacturer which lacks their own skills because they are afraid to seriously invest into the consumer-market which is driven by marketing (I think highres digital cameras have partly changed that, hence the popularity of even old Leica R-lenses). I regulary meet photographers who used "Zeiss"-lenses (in fact Cosina) and have been underwhelmed with optical or mechanical quality as well as with QC. For them a clear sign that the reputation of Zeiss their fathers told them about isn't more than a myth... When they presented their ZM-line a few years ago, all lenses at the exhibition but the 15/85mm had poorly made focus mechanics, you could differentiate the lenses easily by just turning the focus ring with your eyes closed. Mentioning that to the representative, he answered in shame: "but they're not so expensive..." Cosina should sell Cosina-lenses, Zeiss should sell Zeiss-lenses and Leica should sell Leica cameras - when they're not willing technologically or doing the investments, they should stay away from it, it's a simple as that! It might be tempting but in the long-run, they betray the customers! They're still doing very well business- and job-wise, but it makes me sad, though. I'm just saying it would be great having access as an ambitious photographer to their expertise without being a professional cinematographer... Panasonic and others are great at consumer-electronics and putting cost-effective lens designs in front of tiny cameras - not more. @andybarton Who should that be? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted August 2, 2012 Author Share #28 Posted August 2, 2012 Fair enough, but I think most people in this world are very happy to have an alternative to Leica at a much lower price. And by 'alternative' I mean as good, but different in rendering. But if Zeiss lenses were priced at the same premium point as Leica lenses and it was a Leica or Zeiss choice, then Zeiss wouldn't sell any, certainly not enough to make a business out of. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted August 3, 2012 Share #29 Posted August 3, 2012 Panasonic seem to have other ideas about their collaboration with Leica "Already our lenses are not far behind Leica's in quality, but we will continue to use the Leica name on our best fixed-focal-length lenses,"... Steve I will echo this sentiment: I use Panasonic videocam's -- because they offer leica-designed lenses. I have been shooting for several years with a 100B videocam that has a Leica-designed lens (Vari-something -- where do these guys come up with the names?) I just purchased a P2 camera (no tape) that I like a great deal. it's easier to use and has terrific features, not the least of which is High Def. However, though more detailed, the image is inferior to that from the cams with the Leica-designed lenses. Every time I post process, I kick myself. I see a different camera in my future -- another Leica-designed lens for sure! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceflynn Posted August 6, 2012 Share #30 Posted August 6, 2012 Zeiss also makes some products that come in very handy when someone tells you that you have a hole in your retina: Carl Zeiss Meditec, medical technology for ophthalmology, digital visualization, Surgical microscopes for neurosurgery, ENT,dental, P&R, spine, gynecology, radiotherapy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted August 6, 2012 Share #31 Posted August 6, 2012 [...]But if Zeiss lenses were priced at the same premium point as Leica lenses and it was a Leica or Zeiss choice, then Zeiss wouldn't sell any, certainly not enough to make a business out of. I'm not so sure. If Zeiss raised their prices to be comparable to Leica's they just might become the next prestige provider. Frankly, I doubt but very few Leica lens owners could tell the difference: they speak from pride of ownership, neither expertize nor experience. Look to their work to know! Many do not even recognize that their images are not foused! . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share #32 Posted August 6, 2012 I'm not so sure. If Zeiss raised their prices to be comparable to Leica's they just might become the next prestige provider. Frankly, I doubt but very few Leica lens owners could tell the difference: they speak from pride of ownership, neither expertize nor experience. Look to their work to know! Many do not even recognize that their images are not foused!. If you had a car made in every way as good as a Rolls Royce, at the same price, but made by a new company in China, where would most buyers of a car like that go for their next purchase? Well the same is true of Zeiss and Leica. If Zeiss bumped up their prices they would still need the dealer network to complete the circle of what customers are looking for and expect. And not many dealers are going to stock equally expensive Zeiss lenses when they can sell lens and body combinations from Leica, as well as all the accessories. If any company simply copies another then the customers will stay with the original. Zeiss would be left without any 'unique selling proposition' to offer potential customers, unlike the current situation with the lower price point. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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