250swb Posted February 25, 2012 Share #1 Posted February 25, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here is a very interesting (well I thought so) article/interview about Panasonic's aim for a very high end m4/3 camera and a couple of mouth watering zoom lenses. They mention their ongoing collaboration with Leica.......read into that what you will Panasonic plans high-end CSC to fend off Canon threat news - Amateur Photographer - news, camera reviews, lens reviews, camera equipment guides, photography courses, competitions, photography forums Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 25, 2012 Posted February 25, 2012 Hi 250swb, Take a look here Panasonic and Leica. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lars_bergquist Posted February 25, 2012 Share #2 Posted February 25, 2012 Whatever Panasonic do in m4/3, Leica won't be in it. This has been made clear. Any Panasonic 'Super 4/3' camera would compete to a certain extent with the coming Leica EVIL camera expected for this year's Photokina, but that camera will have 'at least an APS-C sensor'. This is direct from the horse's mouth, and the horse's name is Kaufmann. Giving such a m4/3 camera a Leica red dot would make matters worse. What 'at least' means is anybody's guess. It could be a bespoke sensor close to the dimensions of that of the M8. That I think would be required of a viable 'R solution' – unless all R-lens users have died of asphyxiation by now, holding their breath. LB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 25, 2012 Author Share #3 Posted February 25, 2012 Panasonic seem to have other ideas about their collaboration with Leica "Already our lenses are not far behind Leica's in quality, but we will continue to use the Leica name on our best fixed-focal-length lenses," Given there are many ways to interpret even the smallest nuance of language it still seems to me that Panasonic are still going to be introducing high end prime lenses with the Leica name on them, and yes it will be a competing system. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosuna Posted February 25, 2012 Share #4 Posted February 25, 2012 The 24x36 is the "Leica format", the R system format, the M system format... so, I expect, wish and hope Leica use this format for any new camera with interchangeable lenses. ... and... Leica already has a mirrorless system, the M system. So I would build any new mirrorless camera from it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted February 26, 2012 Share #5 Posted February 26, 2012 The M is indeed a 'mirrorless' camera, but so was my old Zeiss Super Ikonta ... The M is a rangefinder camera, and the rangefinder/viewfinder assembly is extremely expensive to produce. It is also a technological dead end: Nobody has found a way to radically improve it since 1957 (the introducrion of the M2). So the new camera will not be a modified M. The new Leica EVIL camera will take M lenses, natively or via an adapter, as it will take R lenses, because Mr. Kaufmann is not stupid. But primarily it will take a new line of autofocus lenses. Because Mr. Kaufmann is not stupid. LB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted February 26, 2012 Share #6 Posted February 26, 2012 Already our lenses are not far behind Leica's in qualityTranslation: our lenses are considerably worse. This is Japan we are talking about. Even conceding "not far behind" is a major deal. Still considering the market & pricing Panasonic seem to be doing some clever stuff. The young man who still thinks Lars should again add some snippets of wisdom to his signature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdriceman Posted February 26, 2012 Share #7 Posted February 26, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Translation: our lenses are considerably worse. This is Japan we are talking about. Even conceding "not far behind" is a major deal. Still considering the market & pricing Panasonic seem to be doing some clever stuff. The young man who still thinks Lars should again add some snippets of wisdom to his signature. Agree! The forum has lost some character with the omission of Lars' very informative tag lines. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 26, 2012 Share #8 Posted February 26, 2012 Translation: our lenses are considerably worse That's not how I'd describe their 20mm f1.7 lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
algrove Posted February 26, 2012 Share #9 Posted February 26, 2012 That's not how I'd describe their 20mm f1.7 lens. Agree, as I have gotten some very nice candid shots with that lens on a GF1. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbealnz Posted February 26, 2012 Share #10 Posted February 26, 2012 Getting off topic I know, but +2 for some snippets, I read the thread mainly for them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sp12 Posted February 26, 2012 Share #11 Posted February 26, 2012 Translation: our lenses are considerably worse. This is Japan we are talking about. Even conceding "not far behind" is a major deal. Still considering the market & pricing Panasonic seem to be doing some clever stuff. The young man who still thinks Lars should again add some snippets of wisdom to his signature. Eh I disagree. Japan is all about self-effacing. You might be thinking of China. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted February 26, 2012 Share #12 Posted February 26, 2012 ... The young man who still thinks Lars should again add some snippets of wisdom to his signature. HEAR HEAR! (Are you listening, Lars ... ?) Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted February 27, 2012 Share #13 Posted February 27, 2012 Eh I disagree. Japan is all about self-effacing. You might be thinking of China. Having been to both China and Japan, several times, I am pretty sure I meant to type Japan & not China. In China we noticed the "90% thing" - everything looks pretty much as it should but the minor details are often not quite there (yet). Asked some companies we were visiting & they tended to agree. Simple things like soap-bars at the hotel are wrapped in plastic that is impossible to tear - only a very slight modification in the choice of material would solve that. The hotel furniture looks comfortable but invariably isn't. It takes quite some effort to convince them that nearly right is counterproductive for business in the long run. Still I have no doubt they are catching up fast. PhD students from China are fun to have around and often very talented. In Japan, indeed self-effacing, but they also show great pride in getting things just right. No compromises. That is one of the reasons why large screen LCD technology moved there (& Korea, for that matter). If it is possible to go from 99% to 99.9% they will do it. They are mad (in the positive sense) about technology. So if they state in public "not far behind" that does not come naturally & they will do their darnedest to close the gap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo.Battista Posted February 28, 2012 Share #14 Posted February 28, 2012 – unless all R-lens users have died of asphyxiation by now, holding their breath. Actually I'm using with satisfaction my R lenses on a Ricoh GXR with M mount module. As well as my old Nikkor, Zuiko Om and Zeiss lenses. Should like produce a mirrorless camera for R lenses? Maybe yes, but they put out of production the whole R system. So I don't think that this new type of camera will be specifically aimed at the use of R lenses. Simply it will be able to fit them, like every other mirrorless camer. The scope of the new camera will be the introduction of a new system family. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lars_bergquist Posted February 29, 2012 Share #15 Posted February 29, 2012 HEAR HEAR! (Are you listening, Lars ... ?) Pete. I am. But I'm just too damn lazy. Old man LB Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickgrafixstop Posted July 21, 2012 Share #16 Posted July 21, 2012 Chinese, Japanese, Siamese, whatever. The key here is a combination of engineering talent (increasingly Far Eastern oriented), design tools (available pretty much anywhere you can find a PC), automated manufacturing capabilities (more a function of capital than geography) and a flexible assembly and QC procedure and - Voila - a high quality lens product. Couple that with volume and a marketing force/channels and you may have "a high quality product" without the Leica pricetag. Panasonic certainly has abundant resources to do so if it chooses. Five years from now the biggest names in digital photography may well be Panasonic, Fuji and Canon - if only from applying available resources. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reading Posted July 22, 2012 Share #17 Posted July 22, 2012 Actually I'm using with satisfaction my R lenses on a Ricoh GXR with M mount module. As well as my old Nikkor, Zuiko Om and Zeiss lenses.Should like produce a mirrorless camera for R lenses? Maybe yes, but they put out of production the whole R system. So I don't think that this new type of camera will be specifically aimed at the use of R lenses. Simply it will be able to fit them, like every other mirrorless camer. The scope of the new camera will be the introduction of a new system family. I cannot dissagree with this more. It is quit clear that they are able to now build smaller sensors that work really well in low light. I suspect that the new evil camera will have a smaller sensor than the m9 but will have the same quality. The m10 will then get the latest sensor technology to bring back the gap. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_lague Posted July 27, 2012 Share #18 Posted July 27, 2012 I have a GF1 and a GX1. Both excellent cameras. GX has a 16MP sensor and takes great quality shots. I use the GF1 with an adapter and OM prime lenses and get excellent results. Sure I would like an M9, but for now the GF and GX fill the bill well. I have the GF1 sofware hacked so I can to full manual in video and photo mode. I have an old LC1 as well [G2 like] and I still love it......i guess I have turned into a mirrorless junkie and fan. If you have a bunch of good Leica lenses get a GX1 with an adapter and try them out. I paid under $500 USD at B&H for the GX1 and a 14-40 Panasonic stabilized zoom. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted July 31, 2012 Share #19 Posted July 31, 2012 I have a GF1 and the 20mm F1.7 both great and I would never sell (No point not worth very much now !) But moving to an M8 and now an M9-P has been very rewarding, it did take that sort of jump to leave the GF1/20mm notably behind. I do hope the 'look' of the Leica sensor remains when the M10 comes. It's interesting I have twice been told that my Camera is the same Company that make lenses for Panasonic and the assumption is they are now going it alone and having a go at their own camera ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
georg Posted July 31, 2012 Share #20 Posted July 31, 2012 The biggest enemy of engineers and craftsmen and their efforts in quality is the logic of the financial markets and economists... The first Panasonic M43 lens was the "Made in Japan" 14-45 which was then replaced by the "Made in China" 14-42 which is clearly inferior in all aspects... Quality degrading... Panasonic had lifetime employment which is especially crucial to the Japanese society and craftsmenship because of the lack of proper training/apprenticeships like in traditional crafts, now over 30% of the employees are temporary workers with no experience and social security... But the shareholder-value of the next quarter has become more important than the long-term success... :-( I've seen our Chinese production site, according to my German employer better than the native ones, still, the workers were treated like sh*t - earning .50-2$/h at most (hardly making any living), no training, no social security, no advanced machining like in the German production-sites... Just cheap labor, next step is Africa! Leica and especially Zeiss have uniquely trained craftsmen (takes 42 months - show me another optics company that does this investment) collaborating closely with engineers. Ever wondered why Carl Zeiss out-classed Nikon and Canon with the last generation of semiconductor-optics? Why they don't outsource their know-how to China? I seriously hope both companies continue to invest into production and design "Made in Germany" to give us unique product quality. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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