Summilux 50mm Version 1

[swamiji]

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I have the opportunity to acquire a Summilux 50mm Version 1. It's really clean, but the aperture ring is rather loose, so a CLA is needed for use.

 

I was wondering if anybody has any experience with this old lens?

 

Are there in issues with this lens for use on a M9?

 

I have heard is soft, how soft?

 

I know it was a short lived design, replaced quickly by the second version. Is that a concern?

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[lars_bergquist]

The v.1 Summilux was really an updated version of the (1949–1960) Summarit 1.5 lens, which in turn was a slightly updated (= coated) version of the (1935–1942) Xenon 1.5, all sharing the same basic layout. The first made lenses were actually engraved "Summitar 1:1.4". Contrast was very low when wide open. Rendering is pleasant at mid-apertures.

 

The lens was a result of the old Wetzlar philosophy which emphasised resolution before contrast. The design was blown out of the water by recent high speed lenses by Nikon and Canon, which captured the photographers – amongst them David Douglas Duncan – with their crisper images. During 1960, a completely new design was produced and 'smuggled' into the pipeline in 1961 – and then it was produced until 2004! The new design went in from #1844001. The v.2 lens has much better definition on and around the axis wide open. The two lenses are about equal at 5.6. This operation to increase contrast was in the same spirit as what Walter Mandler did to the 5cm Summicron when he designed the 'rigid' version. But I think the new 'lux was computed in Wetzlar.

 

In other words, the lens is interesting and yes, some people like it, but few of us would consider it a 'working' 50mm lens today, while many do regularly use the v.2. There is little interest in the v.1 today, as too many were produce to make it a collector's item. It is completely useable on a M9.

 

The old man from way back then

[luigi bertolotti]

If the lens must be CLAed hardly it worths the cost, unless it is really a bargain price... as the Old Man said, it is really an Old Design (though not short-lived) ; personally, I sometimes use a Summarit 50 1,5, practically identical and imho more pleasant in exterior style (more "retro" than the Summilux - more in accord with rendering... mine bears also the "Taylor-Hobson" engraving : in some countries this firm still retained the patent of the original Xenon design and Leitz had to quote it).

Of course... should it be in screw mount AND at a bargain price... , get it quickly... they are very rare...

[scsambrook]

Lars has given the technical history of the first version of the 50 Summilux, so nothing to add there of course. But, having had a Summarit in the past, I just cannot see why it doesn't qualify as a "working" lens. True, it lacks some of the qualities of the later Leitz 1.4s but that doesn't mean it can't be used happily for 'real-world' photography.

 

However, let me add immediately that while Lars says there is "little interest" in it, I doubt that you'll buy one at a bargain price. And that will probably be what tips your decision, especially if the one you're looking needs money spending on it. Luigi rightly points out that some variants are worth good money to collectors.

 

Good luck with it,

 

Stephen

[gyoung]

Well, I have a very late example of the pre aspheric Summilux, and its certainly a working 50mm lens, my main one on m6 ttl and M 3. I would imagine it was improved over its long life, but sharpness compares well with the mk 1 rigid Summicron I have, certainly from 2.8 onwards, and I love the way it renders colour.

 

Gerry

[ho_co]

Gerry, your lens would be a version 2 or 3, if I'm not mistaken. The last version optically of the pre-aspheric Summilux 50 was on the market from the mid-1960's in a couple differing mount styles. Version 1 predates it.

[tobey bilek]

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I have looked at a few version 1 and my Summarit always did better, so I never upgraded.

 

V2 has the worst barrel distortion of any Leica 50 made reading in Osterlow`s Leica M handbook. Samples I checked never got sharp until 6.3 or 8, thus I kept the Summarit 1.5 again. The main trait in its favor is very well controlled coma so light sources are rendered round.

 

Now the V3 currently made is a lens to behold and the one for all the lens manufactures to emulate. FANTASTIC is all I can say.Best all around 50 I ever used. Downside is it weighs like a brick and you will spend the kids inheritance or college fund on it.

[stephan_w]

just got this lens from a good old friend who died two years ago.

 

I had no time to test it in detail (especially wide open), but so far I love it. Very smoth rendering and bokeh, nice colors, sharp, all I want from a lens.

 

It is also less harsh than the actual SLX 50 ASPH.

 

As an everyday-lens last week (on the m9p):

 

portrait glamour nature | lost house (a dream ....)

 

portrait glamour nature | Portofino

[swamiji]

The question is always what is a bargain price for a Leica lens today in this market. They want $1700 US for the lens, and another 300-500 for a CLA. You can get a new Summicron for less. The lens is pretty, no signs of wear, it really is a 9+, and optics are clear. But the aperture ring needs help, so loose it feels like it might just fall off. Other than it being clean, it's nothing special.

 

Thanks everybody.

 

P.S. Yes, while this is an old design, the model was only produced for three years.

[luigi bertolotti]

I'd say is not a bargain at that total cost : if I were you, I'd pass away... but just my opinion... not a bargain, but not a theft , either...

[lars_bergquist]

Well, I have a very late example of the pre aspheric Summilux, and its certainly a working 50mm lens, my main one on m6 ttl and M 3. I would imagine it was improved over its long life, but sharpness compares well with the mk 1 rigid Summicron I have, certainly from 2.8 onwards, and I love the way it renders colour.

 

Gerry

 

You have the v.2. I and the OP were referring to the v.1.

 

But yes, the v.2 was and is a pleasant lens. Performance is very good across the field at f:8. But I am now using the Summilux ASPH which does play in a different league.

 

The old man from way back then

[elgenper]

.... if I were you, I'd pass away...

 

Well, isn´t that just a little drastic......

[swamiji]

I'd say is not a bargain at that total cost : if I were you, I'd pass away... but just my opinion... not a bargain, but not a theft , either...

 

Ignoring the silly innuendo, I think I will pass. It's from a reliable dealer, but I think the store was a little too generous when they purchased the lens, and just needs to recoup there cost. It's the unknown of the cost of a CLA that really kills it for me.

 

The problem is I have a need for speed... and my Noctilux is too big for daily use. This being the smallest of the Summilux's caught my eye.

 

Again Thanks...

 

P.S. I think I will pass on the Passing Away part... if you don't mind.

[gyoung]

Yes, sorry for the confusion (mine:-( ) about my Summilux, indeed I do remember the change from the original design.

That's the trouble with doing things in a hurry between grand price and my dinner!

I must say that price does look very high for an early one

 

Gerry

[luigi bertolotti]

 

P.S. I think I will pass on the Passing Away part... if you don't mind.

 

..Sorry...... a glitch in my English, and not such a funny one...

 

(meant to write "pass by"... "away" came out, then vaguely thought "not so exact... oh well...")

[menos I M6]

Ignoring the silly innuendo, I think I will pass. It's from a reliable dealer, but I think the store was a little too generous when they purchased the lens, and just needs to recoup there cost. It's the unknown of the cost of a CLA that really kills it for me.

 

The problem is I have a need for speed... and my Noctilux is too big for daily use. This being the smallest of the Summilux's caught my eye.

 

Again Thanks...

 

P.S. I think I will pass on the Passing Away part... if you don't mind.

 

I think, what you might be looking for is a nice sample of the Nippon Kogaku Nikkor-S.C 5cm f1.4 in LTM mount, adapted to Leica M.

 

This is the lens, that forced Leica to act quickly in redeveloping their fast 50mm lens after bringing now known Nikon on the scene.

 

The Nikkor really is a very compact lens, renders beautifully with a dreamy, but already quite contrasty look @ f1.4 and get's surprisingly modern, stopped down just half a stop.

It murders the Summilux v1 in performance.

 

It's neatest trick though is, that it actually focusses down to 0.45m (!!!) - all by itself without any trick accessory gimmicks.

Without any Leica body actually being able, to follow the lens focussing this close, you have to estimate focus that close up though.

 

The Nikkor can also be modified, to work with Leica M rangefinders, following up to the physical limit of the RF (0.7m).

 

Nice is also, that it's coatings are far advanced in durability and it's optics are much less to be seen hazed up, as contemporary Leica lenses.

Unfortunately, the Nikkor is less and less to be seen for sale on the market - for a reason.

 

You can see the Nikkor on the MP right in the picture:

 

LTM fun by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

 

Surprisingly, I can't find much on my flickr with this lens - here is one, stopped down half a stop (wider than f2, just to prevent the glow from kicking in):

 

get them by teknopunk.com, on Flickr

[swamiji]

That is one thing about this, there are so many unusual and absolutely gorgeous lenses out there. However the problem is finding them, and then if you find one, how can you make it work, and if you make it work, is it safe on current cameras.

 

This lens looks wonderful, however to find one already modified will be a task. Also I notice it's collapsable. I wonder if it's safe on the M9? Well, if not, I can at least I can put one on my M4-2.

 

The search continues!

[wda]

Swamiji, a good idea. I like to have something to look forward to, a continuing search. It also has the merit of taking your mind off other possible impulse buys!

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[menos I M6]

That is one thing about this, there are so many unusual and absolutely gorgeous lenses out there. However the problem is finding them, and then if you find one, how can you make it work, and if you make it work, is it safe on current cameras.

 

This lens looks wonderful, however to find one already modified will be a task. Also I notice it's collapsable. I wonder if it's safe on the M9? Well, if not, I can at least I can put one on my M4-2.

 

The search continues!

 

I actually would prefer, to find a nice copy, which has not been modified or (even harder to find) a sample, that has been professionally modified instead of using a file on the mount - I HATE butchered lenses!

 

Once, it got known, that one can file the focus mount, to accommodate Leica's rangefinder for close focussing some people got the hacksaw and big hammer out and ruined these beautiful lenses :-(

 

The Nikkor-S.C 5cm f1.4 in LTM mount is safe to use on all Leica M bodies so far.

It is not a collapsible lens, but rather a very tightly packed high performance lens with no space to spare for a collapsible mechanism.

 

It is considered the "Summilux Killer" of the time ;-) (for a reason btw).

The prices for this lens have seen a doubling over the last year or so - if you can find one in LTM mount, that is.

It's a pity, Nikon didn't expand their editions of special runs of their beautiful rangefinder body kits, even selling special made LTM mount lenses would draw customers, to buy them!

[Nomercyus]

I have one, use it with a Nex-5n (do not have digital M). I posted some wide open samples/test pics in this thread:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-sammler-historica/118006-summilux-m-50er-1-4-1-a.html#post2321557

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-sammler-historica/118006-summilux-m-50er-1-4-1-a.html#post2322315

 

Not unsharp (at least for my eyes), low contrast, interesting bokeh. Exhibits "leica glow".