andybarton Posted February 25, 2007 Share #41 Â Posted February 25, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Â William doesn't want criticism (constructive or otherwise). Â So be it. Â Â It can be very difficult to understand what someone defines as "criticism" and what they define as "comment", though. Â One user's "comment" could easily be another user's "criticism". One has to tread very carefully to avoid offence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 25, 2007 Posted February 25, 2007 Hi andybarton, Take a look here Curacao - Dutch Influence I. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
imported_peter_m Posted February 25, 2007 Share #42 Â Posted February 25, 2007 You can be polite on commenting or criticism or you can use a sledge hammer............. Â Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 25, 2007 Share #43 Â Posted February 25, 2007 The Forum has always been, and the rules and registration state it is, a place of social engagement not criticism (even constructive). Â Allan, I've said earlier in this thread that I won't offer any further criticism of William's photographs and I won't. Â If I see something in open forum, by any member that I wish to add a comment to I will. That may include agreeing with them or otherwise. If the resulting comment is thought to be defamatory then I am more than happy for the comment to be withdrawn once the offence has been explained. Â My understanding is that the forum rules are here... Â http://www.leica-camera-user.com/about-leica-forum/6909-rules-leica-forum.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted February 25, 2007 Share #44 Â Posted February 25, 2007 William spent a long time with me on Skype this morning expressing one constant sentiment: if you don't like what he does, just don't say anything and let the thing go to the bottom as it will, or ping back to the top with people that do like it. Â He wants that particular accomodation, at this particular point in time, and he has been here long enough to have earned the indulgence of his friends in this regard IMO. Â We are all still friends, are we not? I know I certainly count every single one of the people who've posted to this thread and whose emails and PM's I've read regarding this particular spat my friends. Â I'd just like to see it end and the friendships flourish in its place. Â Thanks. Â Allan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted February 25, 2007 Share #45  Posted February 25, 2007 It can be very difficult to understand what someone defines as "criticism" and what they define as "comment", though. One user's "comment" could easily be another user's "criticism". One has to tread very carefully to avoid offence.  Yes.  Carefully.  Sometimes complimentary in the sense of congratulations ("Great shot, Leica shot" that has become so overused to become a parody of praise here)...sometimes complimentary in the sense of supporting anecdote or knowledge of a place or thing.  Just not dwelling on the technical merits of the thing, as that is what is the tender spot in William's hide.  As you and I have discussed before Andy, if a call on Skype is something that might help put things back to "what passes for" normal around here, I'm delighted to take part at any time.  Thanks for listening to my two cents-worth.  Have a good week everybody.  Thanks.  Allan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abrewer Posted February 25, 2007 Share #46  Posted February 25, 2007 Allan, I've said earlier in this thread that I won't offer any further criticism of William's photographs and I won't.  Thank you Steve.  I knew I could count on you.  Also, as I meant to say it earlier, the thought of you getting a "Yellow Card" or worse is simply too preposterous to even imagine.  I for one would quit the Forum before it came to me to do something like that.  Thanks.  Allan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmr Posted February 25, 2007 Share #47 Â Posted February 25, 2007 Advertisement (gone after registration) Guys, Â let's all give ourselves some credit - even our disagreements are charmingly polite Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicamann Posted February 27, 2007 Share #48  Posted February 27, 2007 Ditto..lovely shot,..classic NC feel about it and well scanned to get that across. I 've always liked the rendering of the "brick red" ands neutral tones..anyhow thanks for posting  Been busy, will post something later this week   Thanks for sharing William  Regards, Leicamann Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 27, 2007 Share #49 Â Posted February 27, 2007 I say it is a badly composed image that lacks life and reason, the colour rendition is great but that is probably due to the lens. If a student presented this image for review, I would ask her/him to go back, reconsider the composition, put some thought into why this subject is important and how can you comminicate this to the audience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted February 27, 2007 Share #50 Â Posted February 27, 2007 So...when Allan says this of the original poster: Â "William doesn't want criticism (constructive or otherwise). Â So be it." Â It means? I guess it means reading comprehension has gone out the window of modern society. Cool. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 27, 2007 Share #51 Â Posted February 27, 2007 Hi Dan, William has removed that line from his sig, and Allan's comments are on page 2 of a 3 page thread. Under the circumstances I think it's reasonable for Imants not to realise that critiques were not wanted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted February 27, 2007 Share #52 Â Posted February 27, 2007 See Andy's quote on the top of this page. Of course, this being the internet - no one reads full threads. Why should we.... Â Welcome to the belly of the beast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted February 27, 2007 Share #53 Â Posted February 27, 2007 Actually you are perfectly right Dan, people don't always read full threads. Â For all I know Imants could have see the image on the first page and pressed 'Reply' without reading the entire thread. I don't know if that's the case, you'll have to ask him, but it's something I've done before now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotandcom Posted February 27, 2007 Share #54 Â Posted February 27, 2007 Oh, dear. Just as I was thinking that Allan had pulled off a diplomatic coup and secured an agreement that all could live with gracefully, Imants blows it to pieces. The way he begins his comment ('I say it is a badly composed image...') clearly implies that he has read at least some comments and has decided to weigh in with a criticism that is at best mischievous and at worst reads as bad-tempered and condescending. It's very disappointing. Imants has one of the most original minds on this forum. That doesn't give him licence to set explosive charges at the foundations of Allan's carefully constructed bridge. Is it too much to ask people to exercise some tact and self-restraint in a delicate situation? Â I don't buy this 'what else can you expect on the internet?' stuff, which is simply an excuse for sloppiness. If anyone intends to make a substantive comment, it behoves them to read what others have already said, if only to avoid unnecessary repetition. And as I sink further into grumpiness, I might as well make the futile request that we all take the time to read our messages before posting them. Have we expressed ourselves clearly? Have we used language that might unintentionally give offence? Have we... Oh, what's the use? Â I am beginning to wonder if we need to have a Photo forum for those who invite a critique and another for those who do not. The APUG forum does something like this, with apparent peace and good humour. Â Now, where did I put that bottle opener... Â All the best to everyone. Really. Â Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted February 27, 2007 Share #55 Â Posted February 27, 2007 FWIW - if I see an image thread with this many replies, I'm curious as to what the buzz is about. I try to get an idea of what's going on - and yes, at times it's not easy to wade through them all. That's me personally. Â I'm used to critique - dealt with it in art school, clients and on a daily basis at work. If my work stinks - I want to know, and I am usually made aware if I miss the mark. Doesn't need to be brutal - constructive works. I've also taught beginners....and this takes a much more delicate hand as far as what they're doing. Hard on a forum such as this where we have people in various states of the medium - some are seasoned pros, others are new to the game. Many are amateurs who simply love to pick up their cameras and shoot. We all have better days than others when shooting - and we all don't have to like what's posted. I simply withold comment if that's the case. If I like what I see, I let the poster know. Â My comments regarding the internet were tinged with sarcasm....sadly, I don't have such an emoticon to throw in here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 27, 2007 Share #56 Â Posted February 27, 2007 No I read nothing, but I was suprised that such a badly composed image was posted on the forum. If a image is in a puplic accessable situation it is within the audience's domain passing comment is quite ok in my book, the maker abdicates his/her right to dictate what happens. I don't really see that I wrote anythng that was destructive, got a problem pm me, William has been around here long enough to know what happens. Â Chris... shrug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_peter_m Posted February 27, 2007 Share #57 Â Posted February 27, 2007 Imants, Â Did you get your M8 yet? Â Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 27, 2007 Share #58 Â Posted February 27, 2007 Unfortunatly no, I am up to half way, but with some extra costs to renovations means that it is next year, no dramas there. But the ones that I have used for Bo Peep are great for B&W. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
imported_peter_m Posted February 28, 2007 Share #59 Â Posted February 28, 2007 Half way, getting close Renovating that can have a negative effect on the camera budget. Â Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted February 28, 2007 Share #60 Â Posted February 28, 2007 Maybe if I make this leather stuff into seats on four legged horsepower critters I can afford a couple:rolleyes: ........ I just have a Japanese brumby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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