M9reno Posted September 18, 2011 Author Share #21 Posted September 18, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thank you to all who have posted with your advice. If it makes any sense, I am beginning to think of this M3 as a 47 or 48 year-old who has undergone plastic surgery - and the price of its new-found beauty is the loss of certain vintage features. Gone are the original engravings on the base-plate, while the bulb and lightning bolt on the top plate have now become minimalistic and thin, as if from Botox. Ronan, cosmetic enhancement is part of the expensive lifestyle this little machine has led up to this point (a regular CLA is a visit to a spa by comparison), and is probably reflected on the price the dealer paid for it and asks in turn, though to me the absence of paperwork leaves open the question of whether it was the Solms clinic or a back-alley doctor that did the face-lift (could someone outside Leica do this kind of job?). In any case, what this mature beauty now calls for is a somewhat younger person on whose shoulders to hang... I am (cautiously) intrigued: for me, the bottom line is that, if it still shoots like an M3 and is perfect to use, it may just be worth starting a long-term relationship with this one. No way to know unless one sees in person, so I have ordered it, relying on the return policy, and will report back once I have discovered more about it later this week.: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 18, 2011 Posted September 18, 2011 Hi M9reno, Take a look here Unengraved M3 baseplate. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
luigi bertolotti Posted September 18, 2011 Share #22 Posted September 18, 2011 Good choice, Reno, we wait for your impression with the item in your hands... ; btw, restored M3s can be indeed be found for no cheap... ( http://www.meister-camera.com/berlin/index.php?id=85&L=1&tt_products[begin_at]=20&tt_products[product]=2012&cHash=4aab7320dfc74e96dabab76da5f4be63 ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted September 19, 2011 Share #23 Posted September 19, 2011 Hane not rod all the posts but may be this following pict will help you this is a brand new one for the M3 with its original envellope without engraving... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/161987-unengraved-m3-baseplate/?do=findComment&comment=1796483'>More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 19, 2011 Share #24 Posted September 19, 2011 "Brand new" in the sense that it was delivered RECENTLY, as a M3 spare ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted September 19, 2011 Share #25 Posted September 19, 2011 "Brand new" in the sense that it was delivered RECENTLY, as a M3 spare ? Luigi brand new, may be it is not the litteral appropriate word but never used, it is in his original crystal paper and in its plastic bag. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 19, 2011 Share #26 Posted September 19, 2011 I was curios to know if Leica still provides them today (don't worry.... I didn't lost your former... ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted September 20, 2011 Share #27 Posted September 20, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I was curios to know if Leica still provides them today (don't worry.... I didn't lost your former... ) Luigi, for some customers/collectors they keep some drawers... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecole Posted September 20, 2011 Share #28 Posted September 20, 2011 A quick, and perhaps obvious question: should a M3 with s.n. 1079*** be expected to have an engraved baseplate ("auf-zu..."). An example on a camera I am interested in looks mint, but is unengraved. Thanks for your help! J'ai un jour commandé chez Leitz une nouvelle base de M3 chromée (en i988, je crois), et j'ai effectivement reçu un exemplaire sans aucune gravure. A toutes fins utiles, Jean-Claude. Et amicalement Pierre Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share #29 Posted September 20, 2011 Thank you to those who have recently posted - their experience helps to persuade me more that it was the Solms surgeons who performed this M3's otherwise undocumented treatment at some point in the past. The baseplate is new but genuine, as is probably the top plate. I can report the camera arrived today. The dealer seems a model of rectitude and a master of careful packaging. He even threw in, as a completely voluntary gift, a small Leica poster of the M3 on hard back, ready to hang on the wall. So one is inclined to give a very high, even if at this point only preliminary, recommendation. The camera: cosmetically it is as advertised, so I won't say more on that. The only new observation I would make of its physical condition is that the vulcanite covering has an extremely strong smell of sulfur - it could have been Satan's very own M3. Now this seems interesting to me because the only example of original Leica vulcanite, on my granfather's IIIg, never (to my memory) smelled this strong, and now it doesn't smell at all, after Solms replaced the chipped vulcanite with a leatherette. So perhaps the smell of this M3s vulcanite confirms the date the restoration to the 90's, recent enough to still be a powerful scent, but long enough ago that it is Solms replacing old with real vulcanite. But this is pure speculation on my part - it would be interesting to know what those of you who know vastly more about this think. Speeds on the camera seem to be working fine. A roll of b/w shot today should be able to demonstrate whether speeds are all consistent. I am hoping this camera needs no CLA. Viewfinder looks great. .91 magnification: wow! It blows away the small frames on my M9. But, it must be said, I found the M9 a lot easier to focus in poor lighting tonight: the contrast and brightness was better, even if the image smaller. I can see this M3 being a lot more precise than the M9 only in good or moderately good light, and on a par with the M6 .85 otherwise (dimness on the M3 balancing out the slightly lesser magnification of the M6. A tiny bit of dust is detectable in the RF, otherwise optics are extremely clean. I should add that on loading the camera I had a little struggle with the take-up spool. I thought that pushing down on the spring on the top of the spool normally loosens the little tongue for insertion of the end of the film. Pushing on this one did not seem to have that effect. I'll try out the camera outdoors tomorrow, as well as develop the film. In the meantime, any advice, caveats, etc, would be greatly appreciated by this new M3 user! Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 20, 2011 Share #30 Posted September 20, 2011 I should add that on loading the camera I had a little struggle with the take-up spool. I thought that pushing down on the spring on the top of the spool normally loosens the little tongue for insertion of the end of the film. Pushing on this one did not seem to have that effect. On my M2 is the same (no effect in pushing) - not so on M3 : could be an effect of factory restoration ? How is on a modern like M6 (I haven't) ? And - yes - M3 VF is a bit "darker" - even in respect to M4. . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted September 20, 2011 Author Share #31 Posted September 20, 2011 Perhaps the spool is, like the baseplate, etc. not original. The M6 loading is not with a spool. The IIIg spool, of which I am certain I have the 1957 part, is pushed to loosen the clip, like on your M3, Luigi. But perhaps your M3 is earlier - this is a 1963. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 21, 2011 Share #32 Posted September 21, 2011 Perhaps the spool is, like the baseplate, etc. not original. The M6 loading is not with a spool. The IIIg spool, of which I am certain I have the 1957 part, is pushed to loosen the clip, like on your M3, Luigi. But perhaps your M3 is earlier - this is a 1963. Yes - is a "double stroke", indeed... I wonder if the spool changed when, for instance, the Leicavit accessory was introduced... surely someone in the forum has something to say about... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted September 21, 2011 Share #33 Posted September 21, 2011 Yes - is a "double stroke", indeed... I wonder if the spool changed when, for instance, the Leicavit accessory was introduced... surely someone in the forum has something to say about... The Leicavit MP does not work with the M3 but works on the MP/M2/M1. The system for re zeroing the counter makes the differences in spool and gear lenghts Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 21, 2011 Share #34 Posted September 21, 2011 The Leicavit MP does not work with the M3 but works on the MP/M2/M1.The system for re zeroing the counter makes the differences in spool and gear lenghts ... memory failure... ... why the MP otherwise... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted September 21, 2011 Share #35 Posted September 21, 2011 ... memory failure... ... why the MP otherwise... Luigi there are 3 Leicavit the Leicavit SYOOM for the IIIf, IIIg, the Leicavit MP for MP, M2, M1 ((in silver and black) works also on the MD)) the Leicavit M for the M6, M7 and the new MP (in silver & black chrome and black paint) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share #36 Posted September 21, 2011 Taking out my first finished roll of film on this M3 had a hard time with the spool: the clip would not release the end and the film could not rewind all the way back into the roll, so I had to unload the M3 exactly as I loaded it, by taking out both roll (95% rewound) and spool, with the end of the film exposed. Surely not the way it is meant to be. I loaded new film, trying this time to push the end not so deeply into the clip, and hopefully it will be less tight. Or perhaps I just have to turn the rewind knob a bit harder next time, but I'm afraid to rip the film or (worse) do anything bad to the camera. What surprises me is, how could something as relatively simple as a spool give trouble? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted September 21, 2011 Share #37 Posted September 21, 2011 Taking out my first finished roll of film on this M3 had a hard time with the spool: the clip would not release the end and the film could not rewind all the way back into the roll, so I had to unload the M3 exactly as I loaded it, by taking out both roll (95% rewound) and spool, with the end of the film exposed. Surely not the way it is meant to be. I loaded new film, trying this time to push the end not so deeply into the clip, and hopefully it will be less tight. Or perhaps I just have to turn the rewind knob a bit harder next time, but I'm afraid to rip the film or (worse) do anything bad to the camera. What surprises me is, how could something as relatively simple as a spool give trouble? A feeling is always a relative thing if you had began with a M3 ...you just found the other camera a bit more easy to load Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted September 21, 2011 Share #38 Posted September 21, 2011 rewinding on my M3 always needs a pretty firm hand at the end to pull the film off the takeup spool Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendriphile Posted September 21, 2011 Share #39 Posted September 21, 2011 rewinding on my M3 always needs a pretty firm hand at the end to pull the film off the takeup spoolGerry 1+ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M9reno Posted September 22, 2011 Author Share #40 Posted September 22, 2011 Well, I have shot two rolls of b/w and this camera seems perfectly fine. Speeds produce perfectly consistent results from 1/1000 to 1. The entire mechanism seems smooth. I'll have to get used to how tightly the take up spool holds my film, and not insert the end as deeply. Self timer good, all frames good: so, in short, no problems that I can see with this restored M3. One more puzzle remains, of course: the bolt and bulb engravings on the back of the top plate, as has been noticed earlier in this thread, differ from the normal M3 variety. I post a picture. Does anyone know when and on what Leica these more simplified designs came into use? The design might help to date the restoration more closely, for all I know. Also the black caps are definitely the wrong colour for an M3, of any year, no? For the record: some further notes on Foto Brell, Frankfurt. Their delivery was wrapped with *extreme* care, and working through the various layers of bubble wrap and tape felt like a very early Christmas. Original M3 box is in good shape, two pairs of instructions (in Spanish and German) also good. Besides a small discount of 6%, he included as unexpected gifts the vintage M3 poster and a vintage Leitz remote release. Even some German chocolate for my children: so how could I ever dream of not loving the owner or refusing his sale? His treatment was, throughout, impeccably polite and nice, swiftly responsive, fluently multilingual, and he guarantees the correct working of the camera for one year. So despite the admittedly high price (though I was startled by Luigi's link to restored M3s going for Euro 3,400 at Meister Berlin, which makes this one look like a half-price bargain!), I am somehow at peace with myself that this one was worth it. I welcome your observations with thanks, as ever. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/161987-unengraved-m3-baseplate/?do=findComment&comment=1799689'>More sharing options...
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