jc_braconi Posted September 2, 2011 Share #1 Posted September 2, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Interesting/beautiful piece Leica M Prototype le 2/50 mm Summicron | eBay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 2, 2011 Posted September 2, 2011 Hi jc_braconi, Take a look here Summicron Nah prototype. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest Posted September 2, 2011 Share #2 Posted September 2, 2011 Thanks for the link, but I can't see any seller's information about the guarantee of his pronouncement. First he should produce evidence before asking the huge amount of 36,000 USD + min. 20% Tax. Arn't there different opinions what might be a Leitz-"prototype"? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 2, 2011 Share #3 Posted September 2, 2011 Interesting/beautiful piece Leica M Prototype le 2/50 mm Summicron | eBay Agree... and within the usual pricing policy of ShPhoto for unique items ("you don't lose anything when you TRY"...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 2, 2011 Share #4 Posted September 2, 2011 Thanks for the link, but I can't see any seller's information about the guarantee of his pronouncement. First he should produce evidence before asking the huge amount of 36,000 USD + min. 20% Tax. Arn't there different opinions what might be a Leitz-"prototype"? Sh photo is not the cheapest by far, but his descriptions are reliable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 2, 2011 Share #5 Posted September 2, 2011 Sh photo is not the cheapest by far, but his descriptions are reliable. Okay, these "textures" don't say anything about the item "prototype" and what it does mean to SH. "Prototype lens of Nah-Summicron ( closed focus) Secondhand item with 1 Years Dealer Warranty. Lens glass is clear and free from any scratches, haze, fungus, and separation. Condition: B, absolutely fully functional condition, good condition, with slight signs of wear" What's the written "story" of this lens? . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 2, 2011 Share #6 Posted September 2, 2011 Thanks for the link, but I can't see any seller's information about the guarantee of his pronouncement. First he should produce evidence before asking the huge amount of 36,000 USD + min. 20% Tax. Arn't there different opinions what might be a Leitz-"prototype"? SH is, basically, a known name in Leitz world... generally speaking, one must not expect to have forgeries/fakes/etc from them: it is also reknown that they have gone into a specific business with Leica factory, which gave them the opportunity to have many specials / prototypes / one-piece items... Of course, this gives to the dealer a special opportunity... he has not to keep into account "mean prices" for standard items... he has not to track ebay/shops/auctions... he has not to deal with precise detailing of conditions... quickly said : he knows by sure that is offering unique items, and scouts the market starting from very high requests : 1) Do I find, in 5 days, ONE that buys this DR Summicron for 36K$ ? Good... so, when I'll put for sale a (say) Hektor 280 f2,8 (prototype) I can ask 40K$ around... 2) Do I receive 20 requests in 3 days for the DR Summicron at 36K$ ? Ok, for the next item is better I try to ask 50K$... 3) Don't I sell it at 36K$ ? Well, for the next item is better I stay in a lower range... I keep apart the Cron DR for some year or I arrange a "private sale" which terms will be undisclosed. Is a legitimate way of conducting a very special business which can bring in very interesting returns : one of course, can or can not like this way of selling (or, better, trying to sell)... the "classical" way for such items would be an auction Westlicht-like, but after all is not such different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2011 Share #7 Posted September 4, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's my way ignoring the prices of SH and looking only for his pictures of rare lenses on ebay... But what do you think about "experts on art" when reading about "Christie's caught up as £30m forgeries"? Christie's caught up as £30m forgeries send shock waves through the art world | Art and design | The Observer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prunelle Posted September 4, 2011 Share #8 Posted September 4, 2011 ... Arn't there different opinions what might be a Leitz-"prototype"? This one doesn't have a serial number. What could that mean? It also has goggles; what would be the use for goggles on a 50mm lens? (My apologies if my questions demonstrate how dumb I am at Leicas. ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 4, 2011 Share #9 Posted September 4, 2011 This one doesn't have a serial number. What could that mean? It also has goggles; what would be the use for goggles on a 50mm lens? (My apologies if my questions demonstrate how dumb I am at Leicas. ) "In 1956, the new version of the Summicron 50mm f/2 was presented in its fixed mount version and with two variants. The first, standard, with focusing up to one meter and the second with the nearest focusing distance up to 48 cm or up to 51 cm in the last units. These short focusing distance models were equipped with a swallow-tail shoe on which, when necessary, was inserted a special viewfinder (commonly calles "glasses") that was placed over the one on the camera." p.81 Ghester Sartorius, Identifying Leica Lenses, Editrice Reflex, Rome, Italy. "glasses" is syn. to "googles". Well, the missing serial number might be a hint for a however called "prototype", but in other cases serial numbers sometimes have been "forgotten" to be engraved. Also you might have a look to the Leica-Wiki: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-wiki.de/index.php/LEICA_M-Objektive#f_.3D_5_cm_1:2_Summicron_II Kind regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 4, 2011 Share #10 Posted September 4, 2011 Looking better at the (only) 2 pics on ebay, this looks indeed a very early prototype... to say, not a preproduction model but a sort of intermediate study before the definitive design was finalized (this could explain the absence of a s/n "prototype style" like 00000xx) : they had probably (partially, I'd say) solved the issue of the double focus helicoid : the extended scale is present, even if the RF coupling seems still "rough" as is the usual cutout in the bayonet mount, and this poses some questions about SH declaration that lens is "fully functional"... anyway, one intersted in this item surely doesn't plan to use it regularly... ). On the contrary, the goggle unit seems absolutely in "study phase"... it even seems (freely ?) sliding on its support... clearly, they hadn't yet engineered the final and very smart design which interlocks the usage of the goggles with the short distances setting. Personally, I'd never spend that money for it... ... but would be very happy to handle and dismount it .... The DR Summicron was such a finely made and complex construction that it seems even strange that it cost, at the times, was just about 25% more than the standard version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted September 4, 2011 Author Share #11 Posted September 4, 2011 I am curious to know what is the meaning of that red dot in between 0.62 and 0.70 whenthere is a 0.5 engraving forwarding. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 4, 2011 Share #12 Posted September 4, 2011 I am curious to know what is the meaning of that red dot in between 0.62 and 0.70 whenthere is a 0.5 engraving forwarding. ?? Maybe "from THIS point you must mount the goggles to focus ?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ron (Netherlands) Posted September 5, 2011 Share #13 Posted September 5, 2011 SHPhoto is part of the more known Arsenal. Not long ago we saw one of their offerings, a black paint M2, which I found out they had just required the week before at a Stockholm auction. As I am correct they put that same camera up for sale with a profitmargin of about Euro 60.000 Oh and I am sure they don't know more about Leica's and other cameras than we do here, but they just ask the highest prices on the net. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 5, 2011 Share #14 Posted September 5, 2011 SHPhoto is part of the more known Arsenal. Not long ago we saw one of their offerings, a black paint M2, which I found out they had just required the week before at a Stockholm auction. As I am correct they put that same camera up for sale with a profitmargin of about Euro 60.000 Oh and I am sure they don't know more about Leica's and other cameras than we do here, but they just ask the highest prices on the net. ... Yes... they follow a marketing path of their own .... I wonder which sense has it apart the obvious "try to fish, maybe you'll catch something..." ; btw, their descriptions are sometimes at the edge of obscurity... for instance, at the moment they have for sale a Summilux 75 declared as "prototype" with no explanation nor evidence of such a status (s/n is from a normal timeframe for Lux 75, though, apparently, not within one of the usual-published batches of them)... For a longtime shopper like me all this would lead to a sort of hesitation / doubt about thinking to buy something from them (I never did, indeed) .... maybe they are targeting "newbies"... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 5, 2011 Share #15 Posted September 5, 2011 Okay, these "textures" don't say anything about the item "prototype" and what it does mean to SH. "Prototype lens of Nah-Summicron ( closed focus) Secondhand item with 1 Years Dealer Warranty. Lens glass is clear and free from any scratches, haze, fungus, and separation. Condition: B, absolutely fully functional condition, good condition, with slight signs of wear" What's the written "story" of this lens? . I presume when buying such an item questions like that will be answered during the process of sale. I hope.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted September 5, 2011 Share #16 Posted September 5, 2011 I presume when buying such an item questions like that will be answered during the process of sale. I hope.. I'd hope too... ... one can trust them and can be a confident man by nature... but I find difficult that someone simply wires to them 36000 US$ and waits for a courier.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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