mmradman Posted September 4, 2011 Share #141 Posted September 4, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Perhaps the difference is that some people understand that what makes a Leica lens isn't her skin color. As much as I wish to read more positive things here like good news about developments of R digital solution I get drawn with almost hubristic drive back to this thread as it is so revealing about the whole Leica culture. I don't think anyone is disputing superiority of Leica's lenses as optical designs but defending QC lapses at the price point Leica operates is different matter. I am new to Leica and LUF and this thread is very revealing about proverbial blindness by the hardcore followers. Blind following of the section doesn't bother me very much but I feel that moderators behaving like Party Whips (brand enforcers) is pretty bad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 4, 2011 Posted September 4, 2011 Hi mmradman, Take a look here Leica's Quality Control Continues to Disappoint. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
lct Posted September 4, 2011 Share #142 Posted September 4, 2011 Not sure if it is a matter of Leica culture but fanboyism is reaching new heights on this good old LUF i'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
uroman Posted September 4, 2011 Share #143 Posted September 4, 2011 Some people are not bothered by poor quality control - but that doesn't mean the quality control is excellent. It just means that some people aren't bothered by poor quality. This is why some automobiles still sell, with bad reliability ratings. The poor quality control in the case of this lens is a FACT - obvious on the picture, and not really objectively debatable - it is a problem that should not be there. Whether or not you are bothered by the poor QC is a personal decision. I dont know how anyone can argue that the quality control for this lens is ok. It isnt. But I can respect that you may psychologically be able to block out the defect. Don't expect others to have the same psychology. Nevertheless, it is poor quality in this case. I dont see how that is debatable. This is how I see it - You may see it differently - The people defending leica should focus on how they can block out the defect psychologically - not denigrate those who can readily see that the defect is there. I suppose it makes sense for someone to say "Leica QC failed in this case, but I love the brand and I am willing to overlook it". It is far different to suggest that the QC problem with this lens is in the mind of the observers - the QC problem is a fact when I look at the picture of the lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted September 4, 2011 Share #144 Posted September 4, 2011 I dont see how that is debatable. Some people can discern between defects which matter and defects which don't matter. As has been pointed out several times, there are people which only want to use the lens. We realize and accept, of course, that for other people the smallest imperfection in the finish is a show stopper. Still, accusing people of sleeping on the job is not called for. It's a very very minor fault. No one here knows the cause of the defect. Send the bloody thing back and have it fixed. Then put it into its box and never take it out again. You might scratch it with a fingernail or leave a smudge on the glass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted September 4, 2011 Share #145 Posted September 4, 2011 Some people are not bothered by poor quality control - but that doesn't mean the quality control is excellent. As mentioned above, you will never, ever get 100% perfection in anything. It is indisputable that Leica quality is extraordinarily high, especially considering all their products are hand assembled - in an industry where the tolerances are very fine. Slip-ups will always happen. This is one. The critical issue is not that such an obvious error occurred, but the way in which Leica responds. I imagine they will fix it without any fuss at all. If you think any company can produce consumer products which are all, always flawless, you've been reading and believing too much marketing mumbo jumbo. As for hysteria - I'm afraid the only hysterics I see are from those who seem to be screaming - "Look, Leica made a mistake. Their products are rubbish. How can I have faith in any Leica product" Take a deep breath. It's a piece of paint. It shouldn't be there, but the world really isn't going to end. There's no need to bash Jaap. In all his posts he has acknowledged that it shouldn't have happened. He also said, reasonably, it's not a huge deal. He's entitled to express his opinion. The Africa reference was apposite, and timely. Trips to less developed parts of the world have the wonderful effect of reminding you what is important. This isn't. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan Posted September 4, 2011 Share #146 Posted September 4, 2011 How is this relevant? Thanks for making my point. I don't see how his trip in Africa is relevant ether. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan Posted September 4, 2011 Share #147 Posted September 4, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) As mentioned above, you will never, ever get 100% perfection in anything. It is indisputable that Leica quality is extraordinarily high, especially considering all their products are hand assembled - in an industry where the tolerances are very fine. Slip-ups will always happen. This is one. The critical issue is not that such an obvious error occurred, but the way in which Leica responds. I imagine they will fix it without any fuss at all. If you think any company can produce consumer products which are all, always flawless, you've been reading and believing too much marketing mumbo jumbo. As for hysteria - I'm afraid the only hysterics I see are from those who seem to be screaming - "Look, Leica made a mistake. Their products are rubbish. How can I have faith in any Leica product" Take a deep breath. It's a piece of paint. It shouldn't be there, but the world really isn't going to end. There's no need to bash Jaap. In all his posts he has acknowledged that it shouldn't have happened. He also said, reasonably, it's not a huge deal. He's entitled to express his opinion. The Africa reference was apposite, and timely. Trips to less developed parts of the world have the wonderful effect of reminding you what is important. This isn't. Cheers John So we are comparing Africans to Leica now? ... Slips up in QC will always happen and is accountable in any proper business. But this is pushing it. The same as lenses that arrive stiff or wobbly. It proves they do not QC every finished good. When's the last time you bought a brand new car with paint on the headlight? Or a missing logo/knob? Or heck a stiff axle? I'm just glad Leica isn't trying to get more money out of the OP like other companies would. Its still his loss though, brand new lens, and pouf, gone for 4-5 weeks This is when compensation/apology gifts make a difference or even a simple signed apology letter that with the lens on its return. Their is nothing worst than a company that doesn't care *cough Canon cough*. Glad Leica isn't one of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 4, 2011 Share #148 Posted September 4, 2011 When's the last time you bought a brand new car with paint on the headlight? errr... Actually two months ago. A 58.000 Euro car. The dealer had to remove paint from a fog light at the first service... Funny you should pick this comparison Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted September 5, 2011 Share #149 Posted September 5, 2011 So we are comparing Africans to Leica now? ... Really? Is this the best you do do? Ronan - there is nothing in my post which compares Leica to Africa. My post pointed out that a bit of paint was a mistake, and not a very important one at that. Please, if you're going to take a point of disagreement, try to get it right! Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted September 5, 2011 Share #150 Posted September 5, 2011 It's a very very minor fault. No one here knows the cause of the defect. That's a bit of a stretch isn't it? Watch the video - a large blob of paint is applied, then the excess is wiped off. This lens has large blobs of paint still on it so..... So, logically, a simple step was missed (or done badly). Many people therefore feel it reasonable to extrapolate from that to an overall concern that perhaps Leica's standards, which they trumpet so loudly, might be slipping here and there. Or are we sure that it's only the simple stuff they get wrong? They wouldn't be the first small company to have slip-ups occurring due to a struggling to keep up with demand. I don't see much hysteria here so much as a disbelief that something so obvious (not major, obvious) could make its way to the customer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted September 5, 2011 Share #151 Posted September 5, 2011 That's a bit of a stretch isn't it? You do know the cause of the defect, then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan Posted September 5, 2011 Share #152 Posted September 5, 2011 errr... Actually two months ago. A 58.000 Euro car. The dealer had to remove paint from a fog light at the first service... Funny you should pick this comparison Well damn you got me there 58k, I'm thinking CLS? Really? Is this the best you do do? Ronan - there is nothing in my post which compares Leica to Africa. My post pointed out that a bit of paint was a mistake, and not a very important one at that. Please, if you're going to take a point of disagreement, try to get it right! Cheers John I was referring to the member that made the African comment. It extends to some degree to you that agrees with him. Nothing more, nothing less. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 5, 2011 Share #153 Posted September 5, 2011 Well damn you got me there 58k, I'm thinking CLS? The last German car I owned (in fact, drove:eek:) was an NSU 1100 TT. That is looking back in time... I was referring to the member that made the African comment. It extends to some degree to you that agrees with him. Nothing more, nothing less. Take it from me, experiencing any third world country, be it (parts of) Africa, South America or Asia puts a totally different perspective on perceived problems like this one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted September 5, 2011 Share #154 Posted September 5, 2011 You do know the cause of the defect, then? You did read my post then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Posted September 5, 2011 Share #155 Posted September 5, 2011 Take it from me, experiencing any third world country, be it (parts of) Africa, South America or Asia puts a totally different perspective on perceived problems like this one. Indeed. Facing various extremes in life, be it by experiencing third world countries or by facing extraordinary personal challenges at home, helps to relativize many perceived problems. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted September 5, 2011 Share #156 Posted September 5, 2011 When's the last time you bought a brand new car with paint on the headlight? Ummm. Con rod end bolts were too short on my current machine - new engine fitted under warranty. Does this count? The problem with many of the comments here are not disgruntled customers nor fanboyism but disinformation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 5, 2011 Share #157 Posted September 5, 2011 The problem with many of the comments here are not disgruntled customers nor fanboyism but disinformation. Like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted September 5, 2011 Share #158 Posted September 5, 2011 Like? Like all the 'informed' statements about how anyone can assemble a modern sophisticated MF RF lens. Like the assumption that because someone doesn't paint properly that this is indicative of an entire lens assembling ethos. I like and use Leica dRDs - my gear shows that its used - and am aware of its limitations and abilities. I am starting to find the forum has rather too much pedanticity associated with it which sucks an awful lot of people into it. Paint smears are a cosmetic fault - which any company should deal with under warranty as I am sure Leica will - what is the problem? What has this got to do with fanboyism? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
businessasusual Posted September 5, 2011 Share #159 Posted September 5, 2011 Let me make myself quite clear: if anybody on this forum thinks that millions of people dying of hunger is a suitable subject for funny remarks and jokes, think again. Jaap, my mother used to tell me about all the starving children every time I sat down to a meal and because I ate like a bird. One day I looked at my plate, then at her and said "you know what Mom, if I eat or do not eat this - they are always going to be starving." Jokes or no jokes does not put a meal in front of them. In Australia I have watched people laugh and at times at their own worst nightmares, as a way of coping. One survivor was found floating in the ocean, rescued after weeks lost, no food (Australian) and his first comment when interviewed after getting off the plane "eat ya heart out Jenny Craig, in reference to his extreme weigh loss. Others could argue his plight was no laughing matter but had to laugh at his comment. Not arguing your point that yes, this could be in bad taste, but like the starving people there are always going to be jokes. And I was born in Africa and lived there until I was 22. Tea anyone? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanJW Posted September 5, 2011 Share #160 Posted September 5, 2011 1. Mark had a lens thst had a cosmetic defect. 2. It shouldn't have happened and Leica is going to fix it. Isn't everything else in this absurdly long thread now a waste of bandwith? I am going to go out and make some photos. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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