R-D1 while M8 is Repaired

[johnloumiles]

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It will be another 5 weeks before my M8 is repaired which is a little too much down time for me. I thought about purchasing a second M8 in the meantime and sell it once mine came back but it seems like there are less out there and the price has gone up a bit (2600 absolute cheapest I found). I came across a recently CLAd R-D1 at a really good price and I have always been curious about them. I have confidence I'll get quality images from what I've seen online, but I always like hearing comparisons. So anyone who has/had both R-D1 and M8 I'm all ears, I have a another 3 or 4 days before it gets here.

 

Thanks

 

P.S. Even more detailed, will a 50mm Elmar-M safely collapse on a RD-1?

[xalo]

Hi John,

 

They are quite different machines, I found when testing the M8 in a shop a few times to compare it to my RD-1. Actually I kept my RD-1 and could not convince myself to get a M8 (yet) — but then I tend to attach more importance to film.

The RD-1 is more 'manual' and more direct, I would say: you manually set one of the three frames (28-35-50, x1,5 for equiv in 24x36); select ISO manually on the top plate; have a 'film wind lever' not only to hook the thumb but also to cock the shutter. The 1:1 viewfinder is extraordinary — look through it both eyes open and just have a frame floating in your field of view. But it forces quickly to use an external finder to reach true wideangle. I can just about frame with a 24mm (equiv. 36mm) using the outlines of the built-in VF. The speed dial turns in the direction of the manual Ms (clockwise for faster) — should you be used to manual on the M8 this can be confusing. The RD-1 measure light from a larger area of the frame than the M's. The shutter sure is a little louder, more metallic, but responding very directly.

 

Focussing accuracy with Leica lenses is strange. Some of mine are fine (35/2 iv — most used), others focus correctly at close distance and are of beyond 2m (35/1,4 asph) or never correct (50/2 iv). Voigtländer lenses seem more consistently accurate — company calibration? I kept a Jupiter-3 also because it focuses ok. Focus of my Elmarit 90/2,8 (latest) blocks for an unknown reason on my RD-1 and can't be used at all.

 

I had my RD-1's rangefinder adjusted twice, after shocks, likewise a shutter replacement after a bad fall — repaired for free after waiting for 2 months, but far beyond guarantee. For one day, at least two spare batteries are needed but cheap (NP-80 format, used by quite a few bodies). Beware, the RD-1 does not read or write SDHC cards. File size makes it that more than enough pics fit on a 2 GB.

 

Image quality can be very very good, even at 800 iso (I would need to dig for examples). With the Skopar 35 I am using an UV-IR after I found some very magenta blacks. The camera never let me down (except when I let it fall). Check it out, it's not the same feeling at all than a digital M. Up to now, I like it better.

Cheers,

 

Alexander

 

P.S.: My Elmar 50/3,5 focuses perfectly on the RD-1, and also seems to collapse fine. In doubt, use a piece of gaffer tape on the lens tube to prevent it from collapsing completely (official Leica advice for the CL:o).

[johnloumiles]

Thank you for the in depth analysis Alexander, I found it very interesting. While I love the design of the Epson's top plate I think it would be tough to pull me away from a Leica M permanently even if it's just for the extra MP. I do prints up to 24x36 and sometimes larger if I can get away with it. Who knows though I might really dig it and end up keeping it as a backup when I finally do upgrade to a M9.

 

Dynamic range is also very important to me as I like robust files. Obviously the M8 is not top of the line in that regard but it's still workable in post. Will the R-D1 give the same performance.. I guess I'll find out. I had a couple CV lenses but sold them to finance Leica lenses so hopefully the focus problems you spoke of will not affect me.

 

I'm excited to try it out and thanks again for the insight.

[menos I M6]

This is an old brainstorming list, I wrote, when I had my M8.2 for a bit after using the R-D1 for the last months before.

 

about the Leica M8.2

 

I still have the R-D1 - it is a fine camera.

[lct]

R-D1 and R-D1s are my favorite DRFs for one main reason, their 1:1 viewfinder. If you like the M3 as film camera you will be happy with those Epsons. Their shutter sound is less noisy than the motor of my M8.2, they have less shutter lag and i do like the fact that there is only one frameline in the VF but you'll have to change it manually for each different focal length. Now the Epson microlenses are not as good as Leica's so you'll have more vignetting with wide lenses. Epson's IQ is very good with M lenses but you'll need to sharpen your pics more and the M8.2 is probably unbeatable on this respect. Great cams for B&W though. Of course you know that you will have little support from Epson in case of problem as those cams are discontinued and some Epson dealers have even never heard of those cameras.

[lct]

...Dynamic range is also very important to me as I like robust files. Obviously the M8 is not top of the line in that regard but it's still workable in post. Will the R-D1 give the same performance...

I don't see huge differences with Capture One but i don't pixel peep too much. The Epson raw converter is noisy though.

Edit: Jpegs out of the camera are noisy as well.

[johnloumiles]

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Thanks for showing me the article Menos, I dig your web page! I kept on reading other posts after the one you linked me, lots of good info. The lens range is something I'm going to have to get use to, I didn't know it was a x1.5 and 28mm is my widest lens. I have a feeling I'll be using my 40mm Summicron on it quite a bit.

 

Lct thank you as well. Its reaffirming to hear praise for a 6-7 year old camera. I have a DMC-L1 (Digilux 3) and I know that holds up extremely well in terms of IQ. I was hoping the RD1 would be in the same league as that. Also looking forward to the 1x viewfinder, I've never shot with one. As far as support I'm lucky in that I live not far from the goto guy in RD-1 repair. I was reading CameraQuests website and apparently there is a camera shop in Los Angeles that will work on them. I'm not too worried as the camera was CLA'd just a month ago with paperwork to prove it.

 

In the end I just need it to cover me until my M8 gets back. Its only been a few days and I'm already antsy to shoot. I have to say the X1 is a great little camera but I get none of the joy of shooting with a rangefinder.

[lct]

...I have a feeling I'll be using my 40mm Summicron on it quite a bit...

My favorite when i bring one lens only.

[steinzeug]

I had a new rd1s, the images were somtimes quite endearing, crop factor was too much and the plastic case around the fold over screen was nowhere near leica build quality or feel. For me the M8/M8.2 is a superior photographic experience. Also the epson is rare and support is much less developed. I did enjoy the epson but for me at least there is no comparison to the enjoyment and feel of using the leica.

[menos I M6]

Thanks for showing me the article Menos, I dig your web page! I kept on reading other posts after the one you linked me, lots of good info. The lens range is something I'm going to have to get use to, I didn't know it was a x1.5 and 28mm is my widest lens. I have a feeling I'll be using my 40mm Summicron on it quite a bit.

 

Lct thank you as well. Its reaffirming to hear praise for a 6-7 year old camera. I have a DMC-L1 (Digilux 3) and I know that holds up extremely well in terms of IQ. I was hoping the RD1 would be in the same league as that. Also looking forward to the 1x viewfinder, I've never shot with one. As far as support I'm lucky in that I live not far from the goto guy in RD-1 repair. I was reading CameraQuests website and apparently there is a camera shop in Los Angeles that will work on them. I'm not too worried as the camera was CLA'd just a month ago with paperwork to prove it.

 

In the end I just need it to cover me until my M8 gets back. Its only been a few days and I'm already antsy to shoot. I have to say the X1 is a great little camera but I get none of the joy of shooting with a rangefinder.

 

Thanks for the comment ;-)

 

My absolute two favorite lenses by far on the EPSON R-D1 were the 28 Cron ASPH and the 50 Lux ASPH.

These two lenses are absolute magic on the EPSON!

 

The 35 Cron ASPH somehow didn't work at all with giving the strangest artifacts, looking like heavy coma all over the frame and ugly ghosts when any bright light source was in the frame.

 

There are lenses, which will not work well with the EPSON.

 

I truly loved the camera. it's strongest points for me are:

 

- incredibly robust RAW files (I shot the camera mostly on ISO800 and ISO1600 and pushed comfortably to ISO3200 and 6400 regularly for BW)

- wonderful colors, even in high ISO shots, where M8 files fall apart already

- extraordinary cheap battery supply (I use third party batteries in the R-D1, that cost about 6-8 EUR/pc and have many of them) - I shoot the camera until the battery meter shows about 1/3 left and just switch batteries - this is simple, as the NP-80 batteries are tiny and give me about 150 shots or thereabouts before changing.

- much better integration in a film shooting workflow - yes, that little lever makes a difference

 

The biggest weaknesses:

 

- only 6MP, so ideal print size is restricted (I print comfortably to A4, but have to work carefully on the files, to do anything bigger)

- rangefinder (a lot less reliable and precise than the very robust and precise Leica M RF

- bright lines and focus patch less bright and contrasty, than with the Leica M

- crop factor difference is indeed enough, to entirely move your favorite lenses - my most used favorite lens on the R-D1 was the 28 Cron, I almost never used this very lens on the M8.2 and din't use it at all, once I got the M9

 

The R-D1 still has a solid following, so selling the camera after you used it should not be any issue.

You have to be aware though, that you buy a very old digital camera - things can fail, recent CLA or not. If things fail, they can be expensive, burning the value of this camera away quickly.

Any Leica film camera is therefore more reliable and dependable at a similar cost for the body only (M6 or a good deal on a user M7).

 

If you can afford this last risk, go ahead and get one - you will definitely love the files.

[stefano60]

hello,

 

i guess almost everything has been said already, but i also owned an R-D1 before my current M8, and i thought it was a GREAT camera; actually, i truly believe that Leica should have got some ergonomic clues from Epson when they designed the digital M!

 

+ mechanical shutter; more quiet, you can 'rewind' when you want to, no noisy motor to deal with (or to break)

+ all the main controls are on the top plate, ISO, EV, white balance, number of shots, compression ... you hardly need the screen!

+ which brings me to the next point, the reversible screen is wonderful; you can just flip it shut, avoid scratches, save battery (which are cheap), and use it almost as a film camera.

+ AMAZING 1:1 viewfinder

+ excellent picture quality

+ cool 'retro' design (i just bought a film R3, i really dig its looks)

 

- crop factor, it is a bit much

- pixel number, even though i am not a pixel maniac, i like having a little more to work with for larger prints

 

in the end, i am happy i switched, but i think it is a wonderful camera, i wish Epson had carried it forward. By the way, should anything go wrong, you can still send it to Epson and they will fix it - or send you a brand new one, like they did with me.

 

finally, get a Luigi half case if you can, the handling will improve by 100%

 

enjoy it!

[johnloumiles]

If you can afford this last risk, go ahead and get one - you will definitely love the files.

 

I actually went ahead and purchased the one I was talking about, it should be here tomorrow or thursday. After hearing everyones feedback I know it will not replace the M8 but it should be a fun replacement. Again I appreciate everyones thoughts, it seems to be one of those camera that people hold dear even after its become obsolete like Digilux 2

[squarenegs]

John

 

You won't regret purchasing the R-D1 I sold two to finance my M8's and still miss them. The ergonomics and 1:1 RF are superior to the M8 The x1.5 crop factor and 6Mp are not. However, those 6Mp are of a very high quality that will do justice to your Leica glass, though shorter focal lengths will induce quite a bit of fall-off in the corners. Of the galleries I'm linking you to, all but one or two exposures in each, were shot with an R-D1 and Leica or C/V glass CameraWork CameraWork Yes, flip the LCD screen inward and it's easy to forget that you are shooting with a digital camera. It is a pleasure to shoot with.

 

Best regards

 

S.F.

[Guest #12]

I've had an M8 and rd1 for about four years. I like the "look" of the Kodak sensor a little better, and the M8 patch is a little bigger and easier to see, but I like both cameras very much.

 

The rd1 instructions have a little bit about incompatible lenses.

[Guest #12]

...Focus of my Elmarit 90/2,8 (latest) blocks for an unknown reason on my RD-1 and can't be used at all.

...

 

...had the same issue on both rd1 and M8 (won't couple).

[john_newell]

I had an RD-1 for several years and don't miss it at all. Among other things, the RF calibration needed frequent attention, and the overall ergos did not suit me. YMMV...

[johnloumiles]

I got it a few days ago and while I haven't done any serious shooting it is definitely fun to play around with. Obviously a lot of things can go wrong, but that goes for any camera as displayed by my M8 being laid up for 5 weeks. Right now its working beautifully and I'll take that.

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[plasticman]

Great shot.

 

Loved the RD1s and often regret selling it. The images have a very distinct look to them, and the ergonomics were very smart. The only lens that wouldn't work for me was the Summicron 90, which somehow wouldn't couple correctly. Otherwise everything else was fine.

[johnloumiles]

Great shot.

 

Loved the RD1s and often regret selling it. The images have a very distinct look to them, and the ergonomics were very smart. The only lens that wouldn't work for me was the Summicron 90, which somehow wouldn't couple correctly. Otherwise everything else was fine.

 

Thank you very much! I agree they do have their own rendering. You are the second person on here to say their 90mm didn't work on the R-D1, the first being a Elmarit, but I tried out my 90 Elmar-C and it couples just fine. I wonder what gives.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[wattsy]

their 90mm didn't work on the R-D1, the first being a Elmarit, but I tried out my 90 Elmar-C and it couples just fine. I wonder what gives.

 

Unlike most M lenses where a helicoid directly moves against the RF cam, some of the longer lenses like the 90s use a different system whereby it is a little 'plate' that pushes against the RF cam. It may be that the position of that 'plate' (not sure of the correct terminology) is not 100% compatible with the RF cam of the Epson RD-1.