baci Posted August 23, 2011 Share #1 Posted August 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm close to pulling the trigger on a new M9 + lens in Australia and I'm wondering if there's a "better" way of doing this. To explain, I could just walk into a random Melbourne camera shop and say, "Can I have an M9, please", pay the sticker price and walk out. But that's probably at one extreme. I wonder if I could, perhaps purchase a cheap airfare to NZ and save on tax, or spend $200 to incorporate a company and claim it as a business expense? At least, should I haggle at the dealer? Or are M9s just (still) too hard to come by. I absolutely DON'T want to do anything illegal or dubious, just wondering what my choices are. Any thoughts? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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stunsworth Posted August 23, 2011 Share #2 Posted August 23, 2011 I wonder if I could, perhaps purchase a cheap airfare to NZ and save on tax, or spend $200 to incorporate a company and claim it as a business expense? Would you need to fly to NZ? Wouldn't buying from a NZ dealer mean that it would be exported free of sales tax? Are there import duties on items imported from NZ? Don't know about the setting up a limited company, if the only thing in the accounts is the purchase of the camera, how would you offset that against tax (there wouldn't be any)? What would you gain? Also, here in the UK at least, business expenses have to be legitimate - you might struggle to have your accountant ok the accounts if the business has no need of a camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 23, 2011 Share #3 Posted August 23, 2011 How much do you value your relationship with your dealer? If something goes wrong, those few dollars you have saved might seem like a false economy. If everyone went abroad to buy their kit, you won't have a dealer to turn to later... Don't bother haggling - a dealer that you don't know will most likely show you the door, as he can sell an M9 tomorrow at full price to someone else. He would most likely see it as an insult. How much is it going to cost you to file accounts for this company that you are using not to trade from, but want to get tax relief through? (that sounds like tax evasion to me - maybe different in Australia). My advice would be to support your local dealer, pay the price, pay your taxes. You will benefit in the long run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashGordonPhotography Posted August 23, 2011 Share #4 Posted August 23, 2011 I got my M9 at a very good price from my dealer in Sydney. I know he has stock of the M9 and M9P. But I've built a relationship over many years to get the level of pricing I do now. I don't think a random dealer will do you any favors on stock they'll sell anyway. And I think, especially with an M9 a good dealer is worth having. Gordon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
businessasusual Posted August 23, 2011 Share #5 Posted August 23, 2011 How much do you value your relationship with your dealer? If something goes wrong, those few dollars you have saved might seem like a false economy. If everyone went abroad to buy their kit, you won't have a dealer to turn to later... Don't bother haggling - a dealer that you don't know will most likely show you the door, as he can sell an M9 tomorrow at full price to someone else. He would most likely see it as an insult. How much is it going to cost you to file accounts for this company that you are using not to trade from, but want to get tax relief through? (that sounds like tax evasion to me - maybe different in Australia). My advice would be to support your local dealer, pay the price, pay your taxes. You will benefit in the long run. +1 I don't mind trying to save money on some things (including accessories) but NOT things Leica. In this case I would find someone who has been a Leica Dealer for some time - you want an excellent after sale back up as well. I know when I pay a bit more that peace of mind is the trade off. My dealer in Perth has always had my back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted August 23, 2011 Share #6 Posted August 23, 2011 The applicable Goods and Services Tax here of course is10%. . My suggestion is to give your business to an Australian dealer for the obvious reasons. The M9 is reasonably available and discounted if you shop around only a little. In any event you could still purchase the camera from an Australian dealer, take it out of the country and have the same amount of tax refunded as you leave. That's the Tourist Refund Scheme and you only need to buy within 30 days of travel and get a tax invoice to qualify. You can use it in the meantime freely too. You may like to look at the The Australian Customs website for official information. Keep in mind though that this is not an unlimited free for all. From the Australian Customs advice for travellers: "General goods If you are aged 18 years or over, you can bring up to A$900 worth of general goods into Australia duty-free. If you are under 18 years of age there is a A$450 limit. General goods include gifts, souvenirs, cameras, electronic equipment, leather goods, perfume concentrates, jewellery, watches and sporting equipment.......Be aware that if you exceed Australia's duty-free concession limits you will be charged duty and tax on all items of that type (general goods, alcohol or tobacco), not just the items which exceed the limits." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 23, 2011 Share #7 Posted August 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) So, if an Australian buys a camera in Australia, then leaves as a tourist to, say, NZ, within 30 days of purchase, he can claim the tax back from that purchase? Have I read that right? In the UK, only non-EU nationals buying goods here can reclaim the VAT on departure. That includes Australians, of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted August 23, 2011 Share #8 Posted August 23, 2011 Hi Baci, I completely agree with all of the others. I've built up an excellent relationship with a Sydney dealer (Colin, Foto Riesel) over the past year or so. I have bought an M9 and all but two of my lenses through them (the other two, one Leica and one Zeiss, were bought overseas as they weren't readily available here and the prices were good when the AUD was worth 1.10 USD). After placing my orders waiting times for the camera and various lenses have been more than reasonable, and at times remarkably short compared to what I've read in the forum. The service and support has been excellent, and they have worked particularly hard to resolve any problems I've had with the camera and lenses (including taking on Leica Australia). I was even loaned store M9 until Leica were able to supply me one of theirs whilst my camera and lenses are adjusted and calibrated in Solms. Pricing has been reasonable (and the exchange rate is good for the Australian dollar), you may make some progress with some discounting on the M9 if there are a few about but I don't think any dealer will do much on lenses when there is a worldwide shortage. For my part, I have been quite happy to put my money where my mouth was and back my orders with a substantial deposit. Thus I'm treated as a serious and responsible customer. The reassurance of a local dealer to support your equipment, especially the M9, is invaluable especially as we can't just pop into Solms or a large US Leica repair centre. Finally, depending on your work you may be able to set up some legitimate depreciation on the camera but otherwise don't try it. I wouldn't set up a dodgy photographic tax haven as it's just not worth getting done by the ATO. I assume you live in Melbourne. Just go and buy it tomorrow from a reputable local dealer. Regards from sunny Sydney, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikenic Posted August 23, 2011 Share #9 Posted August 23, 2011 As Hoppyman says, travellers only get $900 maximum total value of goods for GST relief if you bring the goods back into Australia, which is not that much on the average Leica price scale, AFAIK you can ask to bundle the entitlements of other members of your travelling family to get more, but it pays to check the latest rules. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted August 23, 2011 Share #10 Posted August 23, 2011 Yes BUT you are are legally obliged to declare goods purchased and as far as I know the limit for general goods applies and that is only AUD900 total and above that duty (none in the case of cameras) and tax (10%) applies to the lot including the AUD900. In the case of taking already owned gear travelling you need to have it officially noted before leaving else you might be pinged for importing it all! So, if an Australian buys a camera in Australia, then leaves as a tourist to, say, NZ, within 30 days of purchase, he can claim the tax back from that purchase? Have I read that right? In the UK, only non-EU nationals buying goods here can reclaim the VAT on departure. That includes Australians, of course. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted August 23, 2011 Share #11 Posted August 23, 2011 May I simply add, support your local dealer and build a good relationship. That is a priceless asset. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 23, 2011 Share #12 Posted August 23, 2011 YesBUT you are are legally obliged to declare goods purchased and as far as I know the limit for general goods applies and that is only AUD900 total and above that duty (none in the case of cameras) and tax (10%) applies to the lot including the AUD900. In the case of taking already owned gear travelling you need to have it officially noted before leaving else you might be pinged for importing it all! That's just bonkers. IMHO. Why don't all tourists buy kit and take it away with them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted August 23, 2011 Share #13 Posted August 23, 2011 You mean Overseas visitors leaving and not returning to Australia? They do use our Tourist Refund Scheme to get the tax back on up to AUD900 of goods purchased here. That's a 1/11th refund if you like. But non-travelling Aussies can import legal goods by Post anyway up to AUD1000 and not pay tax on them either. It would cost more to implement the taxing than would be gained. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 23, 2011 Share #14 Posted August 23, 2011 Sorry, I thought you said that Aussies could buy stuff, then go on holiday, and claim the tax back. I can buy stuff outside the EU and bring it home fax and duty free. If I come home through Manchester Airport, the amount is unlimited as the "to declare" route is always unmanned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
antistatic Posted August 23, 2011 Share #15 Posted August 23, 2011 I'm another supporter of buying from a local dealer. Once you drop $7000 on a camera you go from being just another bloke hanging around the shop to A Leica Owner. The people in the shop smile at you and address you by name. They speak to you off the record about gear that is coming in and the good price they can do for you. It is like you have a VIP pass. What price for such an experience? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted August 24, 2011 Share #16 Posted August 24, 2011 Sorry, I thought you said that Aussies could buy stuff, then go on holiday, and claim the tax back. I can buy stuff outside the EU and bring it home fax and duty free. If I come home through Manchester Airport, the amount is unlimited as the "to declare" route is always unmanned. In practice it's not a problem. One can usually just walk through as customs are primarily interested in drugs and understandably quarantine breaches. There is always a risk of then having to pay the GST but I think bling DSLR users are the ones more likely to be targeted than something that looks like it's 30 years old. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted August 24, 2011 Share #17 Posted August 24, 2011 When I used to buy Leica gear it was always purchassed here in Melbourne Australia. I knew it cost more but as noted by others it helps to get a good relationship with your dealer. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 24, 2011 Share #18 Posted August 24, 2011 In practice it's not a problem Thanks. It's the buying IN Australia, taking it on holiday and then claiming the tax back that I find bizarre. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted August 24, 2011 Share #19 Posted August 24, 2011 Not that bizarre. When we travel to Europe, we can only get VAT free as we are non-EU residents. My wife doesn't as she has a German passport. So, I get the receipt, tax free declaration, and then the refund on leaving the EU (less the rip-off fee). In Aus & NZ, it's slightly different. If goods are sold for export, you get the GST free price. But, you don't get the goods (usually) before you leave the country. So you pick them up air side. I've bought suits and shirts like this in the past. It's no different from UK citizens buying duty free grog as they leave Heathrow. On returning to the country, you're supposed to declare goods over a certain value ... As for supporting your local dealer, can I offer a contrary view? In smaller economies (Aus & NZ), that support has its natural limits. Shop around online, particularly looking at exchange rates. I bought my kit through dealers in Germany and US, get my service direct from Solms, and save a packet in the process. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 24, 2011 Share #20 Posted August 24, 2011 So, as an example, going on holiday to Bali, with an M9 bought from your dealer in Melbourne, and bringing it back 2 weeks later, counts as "For Export"? I'm sure that's what Geoff is saying. The planes must be stacked with expensive kit and people with reclaim forms stuffed into their trouser pockets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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