Guest Essemmlee Posted August 8, 2011 Share #1 Posted August 8, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) There is nocti for sale in the buy and sell section of this site. From Hong Kong and suspiciously inexpensive. Is it a scam?, and if it is, why is it still being advertised on what is the most legitimate forum worldwide? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted August 8, 2011 Posted August 8, 2011 Hi Guest Essemmlee, Take a look here Noctilux for sale - cheap. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted August 8, 2011 Share #2 Posted August 8, 2011 You're apparently not the only one having doubts. At this price the thing should have been sold within minutes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecaton Posted August 8, 2011 Share #3 Posted August 8, 2011 I asked the seller a few questions some 2 weeks ago, such as e.g. whether he could provide references/track record from ebay, Amazon, other successful deals on other camera fora etc., as I was obviously interested in this "great opportunity". Seller's answer was such that I had no interest in pursuing the matter any further. Hope this helps, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbonthemoon Posted August 8, 2011 Share #4 Posted August 8, 2011 scam, obviously Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesop Posted August 8, 2011 Share #5 Posted August 8, 2011 scam, obviously ...I'm sorry, bbbonthemoon (et al), I don't get it. If it is that "obviously" a scam, why is the listing still being permitted on this forum? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted August 8, 2011 Share #6 Posted August 8, 2011 Should the admin buy it to find out? Here is the problem, as long nobody can proof it's a scam, what could the admin do? On the german forum side, we have requests that "overprized" offers should be forbidden. I can only recommend, to be careful with any purchases! I you don't feel comfortable, let it be. Without any proof of scam, the admin can't do much. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesop Posted August 8, 2011 Share #7 Posted August 8, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Should the admin buy it to find out? Here is the problem, as long nobody can proof it's a scam, what could the admin do? On the german forum side, we have requests that "overprized" offers should be forbidden. I can only recommend, to be careful with any purchases! I you don't feel comfortable, let it be. Without any proof of scam, the admin can't do much. ...thanks for the clarification, Rona|d. I would add that members should, as a matter of course, extend their judiciousness beyond the buying process and apply it to the language in their posts. For all we know, the listing may be genuine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted August 8, 2011 Share #8 Posted August 8, 2011 I'd like to see the committee that decides whether an item is "over priced" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbonthemoon Posted August 8, 2011 Share #9 Posted August 8, 2011 Well, I'm actually looking for Noctilux 50/1, and I contacted the seller a while ago. He answered that he wants to be paid via bank wire transfer or Wester Union, no PayPal. I dont know who will be stupid enough just to send the money to China, and wait for the lens. PayPal could offer some kind of protection, but my answer suggesting to the seller to establish PayPal account is left unanswered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesop Posted August 8, 2011 Share #10 Posted August 8, 2011 I'd like to see the committee that decides whether an item is "over priced" ...okay, Señor Barton, since you insist - take a peek here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aesop Posted August 8, 2011 Share #11 Posted August 8, 2011 Well, I'm actually looking for Noctilux 50/1, and I contacted the seller a while ago. He answered that he wants to be paid via bank wire transfer or Wester Union, no PayPal. I dont know who will be stupid enough just to send the money to China, and wait for the lens. PayPal could offer some kind of protection, but my answer suggesting to the seller to establish PayPal account is left unanswered. ...yikes. Sounds like caveat emptor to the nth degree. Or thereabouts. Run. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted August 8, 2011 Share #12 Posted August 8, 2011 Refusing to use paypal isn't evidence of a scam, it's expensive for the seller and also liable to fraud. But, if the offer sounds too good to be true.... Leave it for someone local who could collect in person! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rona!d Posted August 8, 2011 Share #13 Posted August 8, 2011 I'd like to see the committee that decides whether an item is "over priced" On the german side I could name half a dozen of members minimum who do that in public Indeed it´s a shame that new lenses are offered for 1.500,-€ more than list price, but what can we do in a "free market"? (Well, not really a "free market", captured by limited production possibilities on Leicas side and a great demand after the success of the M9). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted August 8, 2011 Share #14 Posted August 8, 2011 I also saw the ad. I contacted Solms, and they indicated that the lens had been in for coding last year, and was in good condition with light signs of use (their code for perfect condition). I contacted the seller, and he didn't respond, so I gave up on him. Actually, I also came to the conclusion that I'd rather wait for a 0.95 to become available. He did contact me, but I let it slide. I'm not about to make a wire transfer to HK without seeing the lens. I can get someone in HK to look at it, and hand over the cash, but I'm reluctant to enroll someone else. Cheers John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan Posted August 9, 2011 Share #15 Posted August 9, 2011 Refusing to use paypal isn't evidence of a scam, it's expensive for the seller and also liable to fraud. But, if the offer sounds too good to be true.... Leave it for someone local who could collect in person! Refusing to use Paypal (which gives you a certain amount of protection) and INSISTING to use BWT or WU that offers ZERO (or extremely limited) protection are good signs of a scam. I also don't know your bank, but mine charges for bank transfers going out... and going in... Paypal saves me money every month (ill take 50 cent charge over my banks $45). Unless you are one to wait until you have been scam to say 'duh!' then i'm sorry... BTW i have a bridge to sell you, i only take BWT or WU, and i guarantee you this is legit. I'll send you the paperwork over mail (again this is NOT a scam, it's very legit). "Better Safe Than Sorry". ~A smart man. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted August 9, 2011 Share #16 Posted August 9, 2011 Refusing to use Paypal (which gives you a certain amount of protection) and INSISTING to use BWT or WU that offers ZERO (or extremely limited) protection are good signs of a scam. Probably unfair, but any request to use Western Union is what causes alarm bells to ring with me. A refusal to accept Paypal just strikes me as common sense. I have sold many Leica items over the years - mostly to overseas buyers - and I never accept Paypal for these transactions. The risk of a fraudulent or malicious chargeback, however small, weighs heavily in my mind and I won't take that risk. Paypal is just too faceless and powerful for me to want to deal with them in a chargeback situation. As I don't scam people, I've never had problems selling stuff on a 'bank transfer only' basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted August 9, 2011 Share #17 Posted August 9, 2011 I have been in some dodgy transactions, and never had a problem, just some worry - but... the only time I lost my money was through PayPal, I ordered an LTM adapter through JLM, never got it nor an answer to my mails, and by the time I got over my "respected forum member" barrier, I had passed the complain-by date on PayPal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbonthemoon Posted August 9, 2011 Share #18 Posted August 9, 2011 Well, I would pay via bank transfer only to a person that I know and trust in person. There is no way you can claim your money back if you did not receive or received not as promised. Even in your own country, not to speak of intl. sale. You can go to police and claim the fraud, but it will be hell of a mess and waste of time, without granted results. I never consider ads stating seller does not accept PayPal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ronan Posted August 9, 2011 Share #19 Posted August 9, 2011 Probably unfair, but any request to use Western Union is what causes alarm bells to ring with me. A refusal to accept Paypal just strikes me as common sense. I have sold many Leica items over the years - mostly to overseas buyers - and I never accept Paypal for these transactions. The risk of a fraudulent or malicious chargeback, however small, weighs heavily in my mind and I won't take that risk. Paypal is just too faceless and powerful for me to want to deal with them in a chargeback situation. As I don't scam people, I've never had problems selling stuff on a 'bank transfer only' basis. If you are a business that's fine. If you are an individual, i don't know anyone that would send you money for items (unless people can vouch for you on the forum of course or you are simply 'known' on the forum). Poor communication, unknown user located in HK, under priced item, no paypal, only Bank Wire Transfer or Western Union... Flags are poping up. Hence why someone created this thread!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobeyone Posted August 9, 2011 Share #20 Posted August 9, 2011 Pretty sure the photos have been lifted of ebay, the white glove is used by a specific seller. I will try and find a link. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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