M9 locked up leading to a very important photo missed.

[MarkP]

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Hey, I loved my Keeler monocular direct ophthalmoscopes, they just never made them to fit into the standard charging wells on the stands so, I always grabbed the Welch Allen scopes out of the stand wells and the Keelers just never got used. Now the battery/lcd Binocular Indirects by Keeler are so nice and my Welch Allens just get used as expensive transilluminators.

 

Hated my Keeler and Heine ophthalmoscopes and changed to to Welch Allen years ago (standard head and then Pan-Optic) and never looked back... However I am only a nephrologist and probably have lesser requirements. I assume you're an ophthalmologist.

 

Back to Leica...my M9 has frozen a few times, always after turning it on and trying to shoot immediately, perhaps before it had fully started up. Removing the battery and reinserting it fixed the problem immediately. Shouldn't happen though.

 

Mark

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[k-hawinkler]

Hated my Keeler and Heine ophthalmoscopes and changed to to Welch Allen years ago (standard head and then Pan-Optic) and never looked back... However I am only a nephrologist and probably have lesser requirements. I assume you're an ophthalmologist.

 

Back to Leica...my M9 has frozen a few times, always after turning it on and trying to shoot immediately, perhaps before it had fully started up.

 

Mark

 

Excellent observation. If you remember all your camera settings, could you please post them here. Also describe exactly your memory card. At what level was your battery? Do you roughly remember what the air temperature was, hot, cold, moderate?

 

Thanks, K-H.

[k-hawinkler]

Hi

 

If the fault does not repeat on their instrumented camera 'rig' then they only have code inspection as a diagnostic mechanism, and then even if they find a fault by inspection, no way of telling if the fault they find is the one (or one of the set) that is annoying you.

 

Suggest (to Leica) that you could be a beta test person for next firmware version.

 

Noel

 

 

Thanks. Would you be willing to join in the effort if Leica or this forum asks you to try out certain things to help narrow down the camera settings that lead to a higher probability of failure, especially when fiddling with the controls in the back?

 

Best, K-H.

[terrycioni]

Interesting comment, I don't have to prove a thing - they work for me <period>

 

Best to all. Terry

 

But again, Terry, how do you prove these practices are any more effective than not doing them?

[UliWer]

In the German forum a user quoted some information he got from Leica which might be interesting in this context:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/forum-zur-leica-m9/193352-2-defekte-sd-card.html#post1786802

„Zurzeit ist Leica daran die Verträglichkeit der LEICA M9 mit neuen auf dem Markt vorhandenen Karten zu prüfen und zu verbessern. Wie wir erfahren haben weist z.B. eine SanDisk ULTRA II SDHC Karte 8GB class 6 der aktuellen Generation nicht mehr die gleichen Spezifikationen auf wie früher. Ob mit einem Update das Problem der Nichterkennbarkeit einer fehlerhaften Abspei-cherung behoben sein wird, lässt sich noch nicht sagen. Sicher ist, dass eine defekte Karte auch keine Abspeicherung ermöglicht. In diesem Fall erfolgt jedoch die Meldung card error oder no card. Bei der einen Karte die Sie uns zugestellt haben ist ganz klar ein Fehler im Bereich der Speicherplätze vorhanden. Die Karte ist zwar defekt, aber sie ist funktionsbereit zur Aufnahme von Informationen. Erfolgt die Abspeicherung in einem defekten Bereich, so sind vermutlich alle Bilder betroffen, die im gleichen Zeitraum aufgenommen wurden bis zur Abschaltung der Kame-ra. Genauer lässt sich der Vorgang nicht eingrenzen. Die Angelegenheit ist eben nicht einfach, ebenso wenig eine klare Schuldzuweisung und wir warten nun das Resultat der Untersuchun-gen ab die bei Leica im Gange sind."

 

My translation:

 

"Leica is going on to test and improve the compatibility of the M9 with new and older existing cards on the market. We came to know that e.g. the San Disk Ultra II SDHC 8GB class 6 does not show the same specification as before. We don't know yet whether the problem of non detecting a faulty storage will be solved with an update. There are cards which don't allow storage and give the message "card error" or "no card". Though your card clearly has a fault in the storage device it is nevertheless able to store information. If storage occurs in the faulty section, all pictures which are taken at a certain time are affected until the camera is turned off. We cannot further identify the procedure. The matter is not easily solved and we cannot give a certain assignment of obligation to a special cause. We have to wait for the results of the inquiries which are being made at Leica."

[scrubs]

In the German forum a user quoted some information he got from Leica which might be interesting in this context:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/forum-zur-leica-m9/193352-2-defekte-sd-card.html#post1786802

„Zurzeit ist Leica daran die Verträglichkeit der LEICA M9 mit neuen auf dem Markt vorhandenen Karten zu prüfen und zu verbessern. Wie wir erfahren haben weist z.B. eine SanDisk ULTRA II SDHC Karte 8GB class 6 der aktuellen Generation nicht mehr die gleichen Spezifikationen auf wie früher. Ob mit einem Update das Problem der Nichterkennbarkeit einer fehlerhaften Abspei-cherung behoben sein wird, lässt sich noch nicht sagen. Sicher ist, dass eine defekte Karte auch keine Abspeicherung ermöglicht. In diesem Fall erfolgt jedoch die Meldung card error oder no card. Bei der einen Karte die Sie uns zugestellt haben ist ganz klar ein Fehler im Bereich der Speicherplätze vorhanden. Die Karte ist zwar defekt, aber sie ist funktionsbereit zur Aufnahme von Informationen. Erfolgt die Abspeicherung in einem defekten Bereich, so sind vermutlich alle Bilder betroffen, die im gleichen Zeitraum aufgenommen wurden bis zur Abschaltung der Kame-ra. Genauer lässt sich der Vorgang nicht eingrenzen. Die Angelegenheit ist eben nicht einfach, ebenso wenig eine klare Schuldzuweisung und wir warten nun das Resultat der Untersuchun-gen ab die bei Leica im Gange sind."

 

My translation:

 

"Leica is going on to test and improve the compatibility of the M9 with new and older existing cards on the market. We came to know that e.g. the San Disk Ultra II SDHC 8GB class 6 does not show the same specification as before. We don't know yet whether the problem of non detecting a faulty storage will be solved with an update. There are cards which don't allow storage and give the message "card error" or "no card". Though your card clearly has a fault in the storage device it is nevertheless able to store information. If storage occurs in the faulty section, all pictures which are taken at a certain time are affected until the camera is turned off. We cannot further identify the procedure. The matter is not easily solved and we cannot give a certain assignment of obligation to a special cause. We have to wait for the results of the inquiries which are being made at Leica."

 

 

Oh dear.. That doesn't sound too promising

[pico]

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Set to C not S

Set M9 to power down automatically after 1 minute

Shoot DNG & JPG fine

Use bracketing as well

Fiddle with the controls in the back while images are being stored

[....]

Also, just switch camera off while it's still busy

 

I cannot imagine a better way to mess up a software procedure than doing all those things. Make a flow-chart of such a sequence and look at all the stops, branching and waits you will need.

 

[...]

 

However, all those actions are permitted by Leica's user manual

Please, let us know if your camera eventually fails or not.

 

Perhaps Leica presumes that people will treat the camera in a more rational way. Perhaps they should make the software more fool-proof. If they upgrade the software to take care of just those situations, I probably will not upgrade.

 

I've never had a problem, but I don't use the LCD while images are being processed, I turn off LCD review, don't use C+Bracket (and rarely C because i don't believe shotgunning works) and I shoot only compressed DNG. I never wipe the card. I guess I use it like an old Leica that has digital capture and in the simplest, old fashion way. And I'm happy with that.

[pop]

... Make a flow-chart of such a sequence and look at all the stops, branching and waits you will need..

 

The software ought to be designed to handle all legitimate operations in any order at all, even if it fails to make sense to the software engineer. If consumers manage to confuse the built-in computers in a way which ruins the main or only purpose of the device, the design is not robust enough.

 

Have you ever been thrown off your bike just because you applied the indicator and failed to change your direction as indicated?

[k-hawinkler]

The software ought to be designed to handle all legitimate operations in any order at all, even if it fails to make sense to the software engineer. If consumers manage to confuse the built-in computers in a way which ruins the main or only purpose of the device, the design is not robust enough.

 

Have you ever been thrown off your bike just because you applied the indicator and failed to change your direction as indicated?

 

 

Spot on comment.

Fix it or remove the functionality.

 

My preference: Fix it.

 

Thanks, K-H.

[ho_co]

Even the mere fact that Panasonic touts some of their cards as having "Smart Data Writing" and "Power Failure Protection" (see e.g. Panasonic 8GB SDHC-UHS-I Memory Card RP-SDU08GU1K B&H Photo) shows that the M9 isn't unique in having card-writing problems (as Geoff and others have pointed out).

 

From Uli (http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/193689-m9-locked-up-leading-very-important-4.html#post1787010), we finally have a quote from Leica in regard to the matter. So we know we're making progress, even if only into the swamp.

[Swanny66]

My M9 will on occasion show the card totally full after a couple shots. I pulled the battery and put it back in and everything was fine. Sometimes, it just sits there when on with all the buttons not functioning. Again, I will take the battery out. This is all post update. Before I had no issues. So it is getting a bit frustrating.

[k-hawinkler]

Please, also have a look towards the end of this thread.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/193430-sd-card-tests-without-m9-4.html

 

Thanks, K-H.

[Swanny66]

Thank you. I will comment over there if you like.

[k-hawinkler]

Thank you. I will comment over there if you like.

 

Thank you. Please do.

 

Best, K-H.

[AlanG]

 

Perhaps Leica presumes that people will treat the camera in a more rational way.

 

 

This would make sense if Leica could identify specific sequences of button pushing that locks up the camera or causes other problems. But if there is no rhyme or reason to what causes the issues, how do you know this matters?

 

When I used to write software, I tested it by trying to crash it via "irrational abuse" of the keyboard while processes were running.

[k-hawinkler]

This would make sense if Leica could identify specific sequences of button pushing that locks up the camera or causes other problems. But if there is no rhyme or reason to what causes the issues, how do you know this matters?

 

 

You already know the answer to your rhetorical question, namely you don't.

This then becomes a voodoo ritual.

 

Cheers, K-H.

[pop]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

 

Arthur C. Clarke

[AlanG]

You already know the answer to your rhetorical question, namely you don't.

This then becomes a voodoo ritual.

 

Cheers, K-H.

 

Yes, that is pretty much my point too. There really are not that many steps to test (e.g. press sequences of buttons during start-up and writing with various cards at different levels of battery charge) and if the problem is not repeatable, then its cause remains a mystery. So nobody can authoritatively tell anyone what precautions to take to avoid the problem.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[k-hawinkler]

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

 

Arthur C. Clarke

 

 

Terrific quote. I would think the late Arthur C. Clarke meant by sufficiently advanced technology stuff that actually works perfectly.

 

Cheers, K-H.

[pop]

meant by sufficiently advanced technology stuff that actually works perfectly.

 

That would not be required as even magic is "known" to fail at times. I rather fancy he was thinking of things working on principles hitherto unknown to the prospective user.