Card Problems

[Jamie Roberts]

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{Snipped}

Furhter, if Robert_M is right then a large portion of all fakes are good

 

Per,

 

That's true--a portion of all fakes are probably "good." The problem is, it's probably a small portion, and one doesn't actually know if you have good or marginal cards (the most frustrating and the real problem) (everyone knows if you have a "bad" one out of the box).

 

This is not a production issue at all. I'm sure I've had a counterfeited Sandisk card or two and they all reported the capacity they were supposed to and all mostly worked, until they suddenly and rather quickly didn't, of course.

 

Some are totally shot and will not be reformatted or recovered.

 

It's quality control that Robert M's post doesn't address. So it's one thing for overcapacity from the same factory to "slip out the backdoor of a factory" but quite another for "rejected quality or marginal items" to slip out that same backdoor.

 

That's the problem with counterfeiting. Marginal cards can't be identified in normal use; but they will cause problems when you least suspect it.

 

So to answer your question, of course "fake" cards, in aggregate, are not the same quality as non-fake cards and will not work as well. There's no financial incentive to produce a high-quality fake, just one that's good enough to past the "sales" test. Then Sandisk and Lexar can cover the malfunction.

[Jamie Roberts]

I appreciate peoples opinions on the fake cards, even though I hold a different one. But will say, If the problem is indeed contributed to by factor of 'fake' cards,

why do we not see the same magnitude of card related problems in the X1, S2 and D-Lux (and so on) Forums as we see here?

 

Because none of those cameras write multiple times 18+ MB files to the cards at once, maybe? There's a significant difference in throughput on an M9 vs a D-Lux:)

 

For all I know it's the stress of writing 6 DNGs + JPEGs "at once" to clear the buffer that screws up the FAT table on a marginal and fake card. The system gets caught in some race condition or lack of parity check on the file transfer and you're done.

[jaapv]

It is not just a question of fake - I bought a bunch of -admittedly cheap- Memorette cards directly from the factory for my DMR They would not even format...

[scrubs]

Because none of those cameras write multiple times 18+ MB files to the cards at once, maybe? There's a significant difference in throughput on an M9 vs a D-Lux:)

 

For all I know it's the stress of writing 6 DNGs + JPEGs "at once" to clear the buffer that screws up the FAT table on a marginal and fake card. The system gets caught in some race condition or lack of parity check on the file transfer and you're done.

 

 

But If Leica are indeed reccomending using older and slower cards - stating that

the M9 will not see a speed benefit of using newer faster cards, I would assume that

even the most basic of cards, should handle that with ease.

[Washington]

jappv,

Why did you do that?

[Washington]

Experiment: I had this 2GB, Delkin Devices,eFilm card laying around here, still in the

blister pack, that was sent here for free with another order. I put this in the M-9 and the

camera would not even recognize a card was inserted! So, I put it in my little Canon

point-and-shoot and it works fine.

Conclusion: the M-9 is ‘’choosey’’!!!

[k-hawinkler]

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Experiment: I had this 2GB, Delkin Devices,eFilm card laying around here, still in the

blister pack, that was sent here for free with another order. I put this in the M-9 and the

camera would not even recognize a card was inserted! So, I put it in my little Canon

point-and-shoot and it works fine.

Conclusion: the M-9 is ‘’choosey’’!!!

 

 

Rip,

 

In other words the M9 has a problem, no?

Or, the problem is with your P&S, it just works too darn well?

 

Best, K-H.

[Washington]

K-H,

Yup….. sure seems that way. But, there are so many variables in this problem

there seems to be no positive answer. But, the card I used was a cheap card, and

the guts of same may be the very same stuff used in the phony expensive cards.

See what I mean?

[k-hawinkler]

K-H,

Yup….. sure seems that way. But, there are so many variables in this problem

there seems to be no positive answer. But, the card I used was a cheap card, and

the guts of same may be the very same stuff used in the phony expensive cards.

See what I mean?

 

 

Hi Rip,

 

Yes, I do.

However, I don't consider this case to be particularly complicated or challenging.

I would like to suggest the problem is already pretty narrowed down.

In my mind it has to do with how an M9 interacts with memory cards and camera operator actions.

That doesn't seem too complicated to me.

P&S guys already know how to do this correctly.

 

Best, K-H.

[kdriceman]

Hi Rip,

 

Yes, I do.

However, I don't consider this case to be particularly complicated or challenging.

I would like to suggest the problem is already pretty narrowed down.

In my mind it has to do with how an M9 interacts with memory cards and camera operator actions.

That doesn't seem too complicated to me.

P&S guys already know how to do this correctly.

 

Best, K-H.

 

Do you think this is an M9 'global' problem or an issue specific to some M9's and not others? I have used numerous cards in my M9... some of them cheap (but I don't have any way of knowing if any are fakes), and I have had no issues at all. I suspect many M9 users have had no problems, but it appears that many M9's have problems with memory cards. I would like to know how prevalent the memory card problems on M9 are.

[k-hawinkler]

Do you think this is an M9 'global' problem or an issue specific to some M9's and not others? I have used numerous cards in my M9... some of them cheap (but I don't have any way of knowing if any are fakes), and I have had no issues at all. I suspect many M9 users have had no problems, but it appears that many M9's have problems with memory cards. I would like to know how prevalent the memory card problems on M9 are.

 

 

Thanks. Excellent question.

 

I think Howard already answered your question correctly here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/1777607-post455.html

 

Best, K-H.

[kdriceman]

Thanks... I was actually thinking it could also be a hardware problem where perhaps a component supplier ... For example- a card socket supplier , has a quality control issue that renders some of their components faulty. However, if that were the case you would think Leica would have figured that out by now.

[Robert_M]

Oh......

 

Yet another independent thread on the same SD card with M9 issue. Should this be merged with the other 3 mergers of posts? Is the point of a new thread to avoid reading the long, 529 long (and counting) thread elsewhere. Even this thread contains links to the other thread.

 

I hope that those who are truly interested in answers research the the long, other thread. It doesn't seem productive to answer specific points here that are already answered in other postings.

 

RM

[kdriceman]

Since I'm not interested in reading through 529 postings and I'm only mildly interested in this thread it seems quite productive for me to see what I can learn in this thread.

[Washington]

RM,

What are you talking about? The point of this thread was if you don’t know what

you are using in the first place: what the hell is the use of endless speculation

on the other thread?

[250swb]

RM,

What are you talking about? The point of this thread was if you don’t know what

you are using in the first place: what the hell is the use of endless speculation

on the other thread?

 

I couldn't agree more. There is no common ground in any of the discussions of cards such that all information is pointless.

 

For instance, since the M9 came out lots and lots of people have been using SanDisk Extreme cards and not feeling they needed to mention it. Then somebody has a problem and all of a sudden a card that worked reliably with the M9 is demonised. No way to check if its a fake, no way to check if its just a faulty card, no way to check that the user is competant. Not even any way to check that the camera is reliable. And of course human nature puts the fake scenario way at the bottom of the list because this involves a mistake or accident or stupidity, not something to be admitted when your £5000 camera doesn't work as expected.

 

The nearest this forum has come to a factual thread recently is in the 'Cracked Sensor - Serial Numbers Only', and even then some people just can't stop themselves from making comments. For a similar thread on cards there would be rules impossible to monitor or enforce, but if it were possible it would be the only way to sort the fact from the fiction.

 

Steve

[jaapv]

jappv,

Why did you do that?

 

Because they were non-HC cards.

[Jamie Roberts]

But If Leica are indeed reccomending using older and slower cards - stating that

the M9 will not see a speed benefit of using newer faster cards, I would assume that

even the most basic of cards, should handle that with ease.

 

The most basic of fully-functioning cards, yes, should work.

 

And Leica wrote that advisory almost 2 years ago now. I'm really not sure it still applies. For example, I used Sandisk Ultras and Extreme 3s in my M9 and saw no difference whatsoever, but they were relatively low capacity. I've tried Sandisk, Transcend, Lexar, Hoodman and Panasonic SD HC cards and the ones I'm sticking with are the Panasonics.

 

Yes they cost a bit more (well, not than the Hoodman's, but I just haven't had good luck with them) but the quality control factor seems to be worth it...

[k-hawinkler]

The most basic of fully-functioning cards, yes, should work.

 

And Leica wrote that advisory almost 2 years ago now. I'm really not sure it still applies. For example, I used Sandisk Ultras and Extreme 3s in my M9 and saw no difference whatsoever, but they were relatively low capacity. I've tried Sandisk, Transcend, Lexar, Hoodman and Panasonic SD HC cards and the ones I'm sticking with are the Panasonics.

 

Yes they cost a bit more (well, not than the Hoodman's, but I just haven't had good luck with them) but the quality control factor seems to be worth it...

 

 

Hi James,

 

Very interesting.

Would you be willing to describe for us which M9 parameters / functionality you use and which you don't.

Thanks for a reply.

 

Best, K-H.

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[Jamie Roberts]

Hi James,

 

Very interesting.

Would you be willing to describe for us which M9 parameters / functionality you use and which you don't.

Thanks for a reply.

 

Best, K-H.

 

No problems... I think I did this elsewhere, but here it goes:

 

I shoot a lot, usually 1000 shots per week during the busy seasons...

 

I shoot DNGs only in S mode. No discreet. 99% manual.

 

Every now and then, though, that power switch on the M9 will switch on me to C mode (very annoying ) and I'll work there as if I'm shooting in S till I notice it and switch it back. The last thing I want is it to switch into self timer mode on me

 

I don't machine-gun the M9, but when I'm chasing something I'm shooting pretty quickly.

 

I don't shoot DNG + JPEG since when I tested it a year ago I found it too slow. And anyway, C1 and other programs now generate a JPEG so quickly in post that I have no use for a JPEG on the job.

 

I hope that helps. I did lose a couple of shots on my M9 when I first got it, with an Extreme 3 SD card, when I inadvertently switched off the power switch as it was still writing and as I was reviewing the image (duh) I needed to pull the batter to "reboot" the camera (the red light just kept flashing), and I had lost maybe 3 shots.

 

I tried to reproduce it since, but wasn't able to--though that was clearly user error; I try not to turn off the camera as its writing

 

Since those new Panasonic cards have power failure protection, I'm pretty sure even in that case I would have only lost one, and not several, images, but maybe not...

 

I know that I inadvertently shot them till the low-battery warning on the M9 (no further writing possible) with no problem on Saturday, Probably not a good practice, regardless, though!

 

Hope this helps!