Washington Posted July 9, 2011 Share #21 Posted July 9, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) seafurydriver, I have not seen this. But, why the hell are they using aluminum instead of brass? Christ, plastic would be just as good. (oh dear) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 9, 2011 Posted July 9, 2011 Hi Washington, Take a look here when is silver chrome, really silver chrome? . I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
StephenPatterson Posted July 9, 2011 Share #22 Posted July 9, 2011 I'm not sure how this applies, but when the Vienna LeicaShop announced their special silver chrome M9-P & Noctilux combo the following was included in the description... "The camera is shipped with the Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/0.95 ASPH. Lens in silver anodized finish." Now, maybe it's just this one lens. And I have no idea if the lens is constructed of aluminum or brass, but apparently Leica thinks this mfg. technique is OK. I guess I'm just a little surprised, given it's a VERY expensive lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Posted July 9, 2011 Share #23 Posted July 9, 2011 seafurydriver, I think Leica is as full of marketing donkey-dust as anyone... maybe more so in order to make you think something new is ultra exotic when, in reality, it's a cheaper build than the old stuff which was really superbly done. Check out this, brass is not mentioned. Anodizing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Posted July 9, 2011 Share #24 Posted July 9, 2011 Things Leica fanatics don’t want to admit…. the CV lenses are as good or better at the price Leica lenses are worth. $10.000 for a freakin’ 50mm lens! Brag on suckers and see what you wanna see. Sheeeeet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenPatterson Posted July 9, 2011 Share #25 Posted July 9, 2011 So this new "Silver" Noctilux is likely aluminum with an anodized finish? I don't think you can anodize brass, so it must be aluminum. Perhaps with a clear coat, but still a bit dodgy, as my friends in the UK like to say. Keeps the weight down, but I wouldn't put much faith in the finish holding out. Certainly not the same construction league as the M9-P (chrome plate over brass). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Posted July 9, 2011 Share #26 Posted July 9, 2011 Sounds right to me. And, more importantly to Leica…. in their ‘’modern’’methods…. it keeps the manufacturing price down for bigger profits! It ain’t like the old days!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 9, 2011 Share #27 Posted July 9, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for your clarity, Jaapv! my scource: LFI "UNDERSTATEMENT", 5/2011 JULY pp.24 para.1, "The M9-P is available either black varnished or chrome-plated in silver." This is a similar situation to the introduction of the black paint MP (film) a few years ago. It was described by Leica as being finished in black 'lacquer', at which point just about anybody who wanted to have a bash at Leica started to say it was a furniture finish and totally unsuitable for cameras, and finished like this for the vanity of the owners. The word 'lacquer' (aka varnish) is used in many ways culturally, and in ways distant from its orginal meaning. For instance vintage Fender guitars are described as being lacquered, when in reality they are finished in exactly the same type of paint as used on a '56 Ford Thunderbird. Of course like the Fender Stratocaster the black lacquer MP turned out to be paint, ordinary paint. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted July 9, 2011 Share #28 Posted July 9, 2011 Jeff,Sorry, but you are incorrect. I dont think so, I worked for 22 years in the electroplating industry at the sharp end, and on the technical side. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted July 9, 2011 Share #29 Posted July 9, 2011 Since there's so much technical knowledge here: What's involved in black chrome? I remember that when Leica started the choice of black or silver chrome in the M5, they made quite a big deal out of the technology. Howard, see here: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/188828-leica-chrome-lenses.html Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 9, 2011 Share #30 Posted July 9, 2011 Sounds right to me. And, more importantly to Leica…. in their ‘’modern’’methods….it keeps the manufacturing price down for bigger profits! It ain’t like the old days!!! Not really. All black lenses are aluminium as well. Leica made the chrome and titanium lenses from brass to be able to plate them. That adds about 30% to the weight. Now that they have an anodizing process that gets a similar result.Imo it makes to use aluminium for the chrome lenses, especially the very heavy ones.. Zeiss has been using silver anodizing for ages and I have yet to see the alledged inferiority on an old Zeiss lens. Btw "Silber" in German is just a color. The famous racing cars of the 1930ies were called "Silberpfeil" (silver arrow). I can assure you they were finished in cellulose paint or even just polished aluminium. The translators of LFI should be led into a hollow square of editors, their fountain pens ripped from their hands and broken and they should be cast out into the barren waste of the Internet. Rarely have I seen a bilingual magazine that has been translated so incompetently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 9, 2011 Share #31 Posted July 9, 2011 This is a similar situation to the introduction of the black paint MP (film) a few years ago. It was described by Leica as being finished in black 'lacquer', at which point just about anybody who wanted to have a bash at Leica started to say it was a furniture finish and totally unsuitable for cameras, and finished like this for the vanity of the owners. The word 'lacquer' (aka varnish) is used in many ways culturally, and in ways distant from its orginal meaning. For instance vintage Fender guitars are described as being lacquered, when in reality they are finished in exactly the same type of paint as used on a '56 Ford Thunderbird. Of course like the Fender Stratocaster the black lacquer MP turned out to be paint, ordinary paint. Steve Well said In German the word lackiert has a more general meaning than in English. As in this thread one cannot translate Kataphoretische Lackierung as Cataphoretic laquer. It does not make sense. Cataphoretic paint, or better, coating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted July 9, 2011 Share #32 Posted July 9, 2011 Rarely have I seen a bilingual magazine that has been translated so incompetently. Agreed. I can't read German, but I know a poor translation when I see one. Leica brochures aren't much better (and there is a complete error in the one that comes with the Passport warranty). All it would take is a for a native English speaker to read and proof the basic translation. Which is what I would expect would happen if an English publication was translated into German (or any other language for that matter), by an English person. I proof Andreas's English language notifications and announcements, (not that they need much proofing!), but try to leave some of the "Germanic" in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted July 9, 2011 Share #33 Posted July 9, 2011 Well said In German the word lackiert has a more general meaning than in English. As in this thread one cannot translate Kataphoretische Lackierung as Cataphoretic laquer. It does not make sense. Cataphoretic paint, or better, coating. In the industry, cataphoretic lacquer is a commonly used term as is cataphoretic paint. The lacquer tends to be clear the paint obviously not. With regard to LFI English version I notice the common use of the word 'motif', does this mean picture, photograph or element in a picture? Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted July 9, 2011 Share #34 Posted July 9, 2011 I learned a lesson back in the '80s that the editors of LFI haven't learned to this day. When SAP AG first had their manuals translated from German to English they used native German speaking technical translators who, although competent, did not have an idiomatic grasp of the target language nor an understanding of nuance. As a result the first printing (I was working at Siemens at the time and was on the receiving end) translated "fields" (as in "address field") as "meadows"... Regards. Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted July 9, 2011 Share #35 Posted July 9, 2011 I learned a lesson back in the '80s that the editors of LFI haven't learned to this day. When SAP AG first had their manuals translated from German to English they used native German speaking technical translators who, although competent, did not have an idiomatic grasp of the target language nor an understanding of nuance. As a result the first printing (I was working at Siemens at the time and was on the receiving end) translated "fields" (as in "address field") as "meadows"... Regards. Bill Ah - "the green green grass of home", perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted July 9, 2011 Share #36 Posted July 9, 2011 And the lesson is 'do not over-interpret anything Leica says, instead wait for the real low down on LUF'. Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Posted July 9, 2011 Share #37 Posted July 9, 2011 jappv, You brought up something that always excites me and makes my heart go pitty-pat. The Benz silver race cars. Whew! I read an account of a Benz test driver who was describing running full-tilt on the Autobahn….. he said he saw a tunnel/overpass in the distance… and by the time his brain had developed the though: he was already though it! The W196 crankshaft is an object of art and wonderment… fully roller bearing. Each journal was precision serrated and bolted together with the solid rods caged roller running on either side of the joint. The one pictured below was in a glass case and I scanned this 4x6 that a friend took. (he owned a gull-wing) This may be a little off topic: but I can’t help myself. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/156358-when-is-silver-chrome-really-silver-chrome/?do=findComment&comment=1728948'>More sharing options...
Washington Posted July 9, 2011 Share #38 Posted July 9, 2011 Jeff, Then you are the man who knows! I bow to your expertise. My experience was at the user side and I was always trying to find a really good plater (harder than you may think in those days) So, I would travel to visit various chrome shops and check the place and the work out…. I asked a lot of questions. Thanks for your input. cheers, Rip Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 9, 2011 Share #39 Posted July 9, 2011 Andy, As I mentioned there is such a thing as black chrome. You may call it anything you wish. The black chrome I am familiar with has very different looks depending upon how well polished the item is. It can look almost silver-black (a spooky ambiguity), or flat or shiny black. It scratches like chrome can, and a scratch reveals the base (silver) conspicuously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Posted July 9, 2011 Share #40 Posted July 9, 2011 pico, With precision parts the plating is very thin and easy to scratch through to the under layer. Chrome (and other electroplated metals) tend to be attracted to corners and protrusions more than other places on the part being plated. Therefore, the plating is kept thin to maintain correct tolerances on precision parts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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