My M9 is eating SD cards [MERGED}

[Washington]

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Oh screw this: I’m going back to 8-track tapes!

[pico]

Leica brand batteries are 100% good.

 

Perhaps they could offer guarantee SD cards as well, especially as beyond the most reliable 16gb Samdiscs that never see, to fail/

 

Leica branded. guaranteed SD discs - I would be a customer in a heartbeat.

[k-hawinkler]

Rip,

 

Despite all the little hiccups, my M9 continues to produce fire pictures.

I really enjoy using these terrific Leitz/Leica lenses on the M9 and my Nikons as well.

In my experience these cameras complement each other very well.

 

Best, K-H.

[Robert_M]

Howard,

 

Please go look at wikipedia on sd cards for a better description of the specs than I can give you. I don't want to put out something that I haven't researched as factual. I do also understand that calling it "class 4" means that it meets or exceeds the spec (which my tests of a card verify).

 

40 bytes in a 4+GB card is really insignificant. I assume (but again I do not know for sure) that the industry specs allow for some fractional error rate. 40 out of 4 GB is 10 parts per billion! Don't be shocked, but your M9 sensor (and all CCD or CMOS sensors) are allowed a fractional pixel failure rate that is higher than that and are still be deemed acceptable by quality control standards.

 

And, yes, as I said I have no idea if a SanDisk Ultra II card is the same as an Ultra card (technically, rather than marketing ploy). I actually assume they are not. I've seen this issue 5 years ago with retro-fitting CD memory cards to Palm Lifedrives. Although the Sandisk cards were all listed with the same labeling, there was different behavior depending on the exact series of production on the card (or package). And no, alleged fakes were not the issue. It was a difference in internal block structure of the memory.

 

 

 

To all,

 

But all these are (interesting) side issues. The real issue is (1) Major SD cards out for sale meet an industry standard (ignoring the obvious false fakes I detailed). (2) It is up to the device manufacturer to make sure they also conform to the standard and can read the cards. The fact that we even have this discussion and LONG thread shows that there is a problem which Leica should address.

 

Again, let me emphasize that I'm not out to complain. I really enjoy the M9. It is a wonderful instrument. But I come from a very strong scientific background and training. I evaluate my tools and calibrate their limitation. When I see a problem, I try to define the problem and expect the tool or instrument's builder to improve that feature. And, I should add that I get frustrated when I hear smoke screen responses that try to divert attention away from the real problem. I am used to dealing in facts and I'll admit to not suffering foolish statements lightly.

 

RM

[ho_co]

1. Robert, good! We agree on both points.

 

2. K-H, I'm in no way differing with you. I directed my post directly to Robert's, pointing out that beyond the categories of counterfeit cards he listed, there are also sometimes unheralded changes within a given manufacturer's cards. Robert verified this again in his post just previous.

 

I don't think you need to keep repeating your point. It seems clear to me that

• Leica's cameras should all work with all "real" SDHC cards on the market; and that
  
• a list of "approved" cards is meaningful only for a short timespan since the card manufacturer may change card structure at any time without changing the card's name, or vice versa.
  

 

3. Generally, I feel that since Leica's customer service has responded to the question of card compatibility, saying that a firmware change may be necessary, it will do no good to burden their small staff with individual card problem reports. Leica is aware of the problem and is working on its solution.

 

4. BTW--We had one report from someone saying the new M9 software worked with SDXC cards as well as SDHC and SD. Can anyone confirm that? It seems doubtful to me since we haven't heard any more reports in that direction.

[scrubs]

 

3. Generally, I feel that since Leica's customer service has responded to the question of card compatibility, saying that a firmware change may be necessary, it will do no good to burden their small staff with individual card problem reports. Leica is aware of the problem and is working on its solution.

 

In response to #3 The trouble is - if the staff team is so small and aware, why is Chipkahn

getting fobbed off with "it must be your card" response's when I received a different

response entirely. shouldn't they all be aware of this and if indeed they are,

why the big secret?

 

I do not see harm in any customers who are having problems - letting Leica know about it.

It is the only way to get a grasp on exactly how many cameras this is affecting and a chance

to provide specific patterns or details that may be of help.

 

 

 

 

I have contaced Leica and they are looking into it. But at first they tried to put me off by saying it must have been a corrupted card. You should contact Leica too and tell them about the problem. It will help I think if a number of us M9 userss contact them. They need to take this seriously.

[ho_co]

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You may be right about having everyone with this problem contact Leica; I don't think so.

 

Why did you and another person get different responses? Because the boilerplate response isn't worked out yet. You got a response that they were hopeful that a firmware solution could be found; someone else got a response that "they're looking into it." I don't see much difference. Once Germany decides the status of the issue, all their responses will be the same.

 

If every third email a tech rep gets is "problem with SDHC card," and if the company already has people working on the matter, all that's happening is that you're slowing down responses from that tech person on matters where s/he may be able to be immediately helpful.

 

As I said, that's my opinion. I appreciate your responding to it.

 

I think the forum is a better place to work out specifics, because we've got a bigger number of people to work on the problem. We've already found that there seems to be a problem when a) buffer is full; camera is writing; c) either camera is turned off or a review is attempted. To me that's pretty solid, and indicates a problem deeper than just card-writing; something else is interfering with card writing. The writing code may be perfect, but some interrupt seems to be interfering with it. A very serious bug, but finding it won't be easy.

 

On the other hand, we had some reports that the problem first occurred after firmware update; others then found similar but previously unnoticed problems in earlier firmware versions. That speaks to further narrowing the problem. But it takes people like you and me reading these reports (and hopefully remembering them) to get further with the problem.

 

I would hope that people like Uli and Jaap, who have verified the problem, have contacted Leica with the specific repeatable circumstances. Whether a note "I got some zero kb files from my M9" is helpful, I'll leave you to decide.

[k-hawinkler]

You may be right about having everyone with this problem contact Leica; I don't think so.

 

Why did you and another person get different responses? Because the boilerplate response isn't worked out yet. You got a response that they were hopeful that a firmware solution could be found; someone else got a response that "they're looking into it." I don't see much difference. Once Germany decides the status of the issue, all their responses will be the same.

 

If every third email a tech rep gets is "problem with SDHC card," and if the company already has people working on the matter, all that's happening is that you're slowing down responses from that tech person on matters where s/he may be able to be immediately helpful.

 

As I said, that's my opinion. I appreciate your responding to it.

 

I think the forum is a better place to work out specifics, because we've got a bigger number of people to work on the problem. We've already found that there seems to be a problem when a) buffer is full; camera is writing; c) either camera is turned off or a review is attempted. To me that's pretty solid, and indicates a problem deeper than just card-writing; something else is interfering with card writing. The writing code may be perfect, but some interrupt seems to be interfering with it. A very serious bug, but finding it won't be easy.

 

On the other hand, we had some reports that the problem first occurred after firmware update; others then found similar but previously unnoticed problems in earlier firmware versions. That speaks to further narrowing the problem. But it takes people like you and me reading these reports (and hopefully remembering them) to get further with the problem.

 

I would hope that people like Uli and Jaap, who have verified the problem, have contacted Leica with the specific repeatable circumstances. Whether a note "I got some zero kb files from my M9" is helpful, I'll leave you to decide.

 

 

• I not only noticed a problem with the previous firmware but also described it on this forum at the time.

• If Uli verified the problem, then I totally misunderstood his post. Thanks for the clarification.

 

K-H.

[scrubs]

Something just occurred to me, as mentioned - my card seemed to fail after reviewing

the photos on my Mac then reinserting in the camera. I also notice several other people

are using macs also. I'm curious Could we have a show of hands or poll created, of which

OS people who have had cards fail are using?

 

 

could be completely irrelevant, but thought it might least serve to explain why some of us

seem to have the problem and some of us don't.

[t024484]

I also noticed quite a lot of problems from people with Apple computers.

So it is interesting to see if this is a significant percentage amongst those having problems.

Never ever did I have problems with various 4 and 16 GB Sandisk SD cards in combination with my Windows computer, not with 2 different M8 camera's and not with my M9.

I even use these SD cards to temporarily store files processed by Cornerfix in the same directory as the original DNG or for JPEG's to view pictures on my TV set.

Deleting files is done mostly in the camera but also quite often in my computers card reader.

Setting of my cameras has always been DNG only, and for the M9 uncompressed.

 

Hans

[steelduck]

I wrote Leica about this issue and received the following advice:

 

"One attempt you can do on your own at any time: Please install the camera firmware once more, even if you already have installed the newest one before."

 

I did this a few days ago and I have not seen the problem since, but I have only taken about 20 pictures since.

 

Has anyone with this problem tried the reinstall and still had the problem?

[UliWer]

Something just occurred to me, as mentioned - my card seemed to fail after reviewing

the photos on my Mac then reinserting in the camera. I also notice several other people

are using macs also. ....

 

Perhaps someone who knows more about computer systems could explain what it means that the card should be formated as FAT32. Will FAT 32 work on any Mac or could there be problems with compatibility?

 

(I use a MacBook Pro and never had problems with any cards).

[k-hawinkler]

I am on my iPad right now, so I can't check.

But if memory serves me correctly, using disk utility pretending to format your card, will give you that option. It has always been that way so that the card works on Mac and PC.

 

Try pretending.

 

Cheers, K-H.

[ho_co]

• I not only noticed a problem with the previous firmware but also described it on this forum at the time.

• If Uli verified the problem, then I totally misunderstood his post. Thanks for the clarification.

K-H, I get the feeling that I'm always stepping off on the wrong foot as far as you're concerned.

 

I may have mis-remembered Uli's post.

 

There were indeed posts from you in regard to the problem before the latest firmware update. But there was also a thread that someone first noticed the problem after the update, which got some followers before it was put right.

 

I am not trying to de-legitimatize you or deny your discoveries, and I'm sorry if you take my posts that way.

[JeTexas]

I don't have an M9, but I have very similar symptoms with compact flash cards on a Nikon D70s. Turned out the cards weren't seating all the way in. Somehow it was making just enough contact that the camera thought the card was in it, but it wasn't able to record to the cards or the recording was intermittent, so some shots would be missing. Once I got the card slot fixed, all the old cards that I thought had crapped out on me worked fine.

 

I've never had an issue with SD cards in any camera, but the M8 and M9 do have fidgety card slots as illustrated by the fact that you can't use eye-fi cards without damaging the camera.

 

I'd have the card slot checked.

[pico]

Perhaps someone who knows more about computer systems could explain what it means that the card should be formated as FAT32. Will FAT 32 work on any Mac or could there be problems with compatibility?

 

(I use a MacBook Pro and never had problems with any cards).

 

FAT32 is the format compatible with later Macs and PCs. In fact, Apple uses FAT32 for their micro device storage. Do not format your SD card with anything but FAT32 (and given I've had no problems but the one below, I'm not about to reformat my SD cards outside of the M9.)

 

My problem? I messed up and removed the SD card from the M9 while it was still turned on. I reviewed a few frames on the Mac Air and when about to re-insert the card I noticed the M9 was on. I turned it off. Put in the card, and then could not read any images off the LCD. All that would show is the name of one of the files. I turned off the M9, returned the SD card to the Mac Air, copied the SD card to a new folder and they were all there, just fine. Later I erased (without overwrite) the card in the M9 and all is well again.

[Robert_M]

For a long read on FAT32, try

File Allocation Table - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

It is the default, industry wide format which works with almost every device now. All the USB drives and memory cards and USB external disk drives come that way (or at least all the ones I've seen). There are newer, more efficient layouts for the disk which various OS's now use. Windows prefers something different, Mac uses anoth, and Ubuntu (Linux) yet another. But they all will have no trouble with FAT32 or FAT16.

 

Older SD cards (NOT SDHC) used FAT16 for the most part. SDHC uses FAT32.

 

RM

[k-hawinkler]

K-H, I get the feeling that I'm always stepping off on the wrong foot as far as you're concerned.

 

I may have mis-remembered Uli's post.

 

There were indeed posts from you in regard to the problem before the latest firmware update. But there was also a thread that someone first noticed the problem after the update, which got some followers before it was put right.

 

I am not trying to de-legitimatize you or deny your discoveries, and I'm sorry if you take my posts that way.

 

 

Hi Howard,

 

I don't.

 

Best, K-H.

[Chipkahn]

Germany says: "

"it seems that the formatting that comes with some of the newest generation cards might be causing the problem.

They recommend the following:

Format the card with a computer as "Fat 32" standard.

Reformat the card in the M9 using Overwrite."

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[mjm6]

Interesting... I'll try the reformatting (FAT32) that they recommend on the new cards that have given me problems, and see if that clears op the issue.

 

 

Thanks,

 

 

---Michael