How long does it take to build a 50 Lux Asph?

amritsg · June 28, 2011

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Hi guys,

Just always been wondering how long does it take to make the current model 50 summilux asph? Theres always been waiting lists everywhere, and always wondered why it takes so long to reach its demand. Is there any tough production parts of the Lux?

Thanks, Amrit

June 28, 2011

Hi amritsg,

Take a look here How long does it take to build a 50 Lux Asph?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!

hoppyman · June 28, 2011

M lens production in general is in batches and capacity is limited although the CEO has recently commented that production capacity in general has been doubled. I think though that demand for lenses like this as a result of the M9 has exceeded even that. Those limited batches can be pre-sold with none at all left for general stock.

As I understand it at least one specific element in this superb lens is of an exotic and expensive type of glass. We do know that the lead time for some specialised glass types is something like six months too. This type of element is literally individually ground and polished too as well as the coating regime and hand assembly/testing etc of course.

So I guess the short answer is, if you want one you need to have an order in place with a good dealer... and wait.

Mine's not for sale... ever. Hang in there.

frank_dernie · June 28, 2011

Some high refractive index glasses have to be annealed for months for the optical properties to be uniform throughout the sample.

The old Noctilux had some, I believe, perhaps the current Noctilux, Summilux 50 and 75 have some too???

If sales suddenly increase this would certainly lead to long term shortages.

UliWer · June 28, 2011

There have been many threads about the shortage of Leica-lenses in this forum, especially the Summiluxes. In each of them one can read, that it takes a couple of months - in some cases some weeks - to get one. Where is the problem?

If it still holds, what the representatives of Leica explained last September on the meeting with the forum, shortage of glass on the market is just the main limiting factor. If there is more than one supplier, who sells glass with specifications Leica needs, there won't be many. And even in times of unprecedented demand for Leica lenses, glass production of highly specialized sorts will never be high. So some waiting time doesn't seem to be extraordinary.

As far as I know, everybody will get what she or he wishes to have out of the present list. Some patience is not wrong for using a Leica M.

aesop · June 28, 2011

Hi guys,

Just always been wondering how long does it take to make the current model 50 summilux asph? Theres always been waiting lists everywhere, and always wondered why it takes so long to reach its demand. Is there any tough production parts of the Lux?

Thanks, Amrit

...waiting lists are good for Leica, Amrit.

If you're on the lookout for a 50 Summilux ASPH, I would recommend trying a pre-asph in the interim. I own a '93 pre-asph as well as the ASPH, and it is the older lens I favour *all* of the time. Give it a try - you might be pleasantly surprised.

Macmd · June 28, 2011

Amrit,

I was lucky to find one in Luxembourg. In fact there are two stores in the city with the asph version both brand new. . I

Joseph

amritsg · June 29, 2011

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Thanks for all the replies!

I had 'recently' put my name on the waiting list of the Summilux about 3 months ago and am now nearing my purchase as my name tops the list. The question was merely out of curiosity, if anyone new the exact breakdown of the timeline to build a 50 Lux. Just another question would the chrome then take longer than the black? and are there higher production costs for it?

Thanks!

zeitz · June 29, 2011

Not many seem to want Summarits or Elmars. Those seem to be in plentiful supply. I believe the hardest lens to buy new is the 90mm Summicron ASP. Can anyone report on the time they have had to spend on the waiting list for this lens?

adan · June 29, 2011

It really depends on how one defines "build."

The final assembly of parts into a finished lens likely takes no more than a few days. But it may be several months between the moment the first cutting tool touches metal for a particular lens and the moment the final item is placed lovingly in its silver box and rolled out the door on a DHL pallet.

Floating-element designs like the 50 ASPH likely take extra work - both in machining two helicals and then in final assembly and adjustment.

As mentioned, Leica builds lenses in batches - this month, 50 ASPHs, next month 90 APOs, the next batch of 50s 18 months from now. But the making of parts is also batched - Leica may grind 50 or 100 of element "A" for a 50 ASPH, and then 50 or 100 of Element "B," and so on through the eight elements.

Leica Tour: Inside a Camera Company at a Crossroads | Raw File

If Leica assembles, say, fifty 50 ASPHs in a week, did each lens take 1/50th of a work week (less than an hour) - or did 25 workers assemble 2 lenses each in that week (20 hours for each)?

It's complicated....

aesop · June 29, 2011

...<snip>If Leica assembles, say, fifty 50 ASPHs in a week, did each lens take 1/50th of a work week (less than an hour) - or did 25 workers assemble 2 lenses each in that week (20 hours for each)?

It's complicated....

...and, as pointed out, it definitely isn't linear. Amrit, my advice to you would be to quit trying to quantify how long you will have to wait. Just grab another lens and enjoy your photography - the ASPH will come when it comes. It is the Leica way. Complicated? Non, c'est simple.

Xmas · June 29, 2011

Hi

There may be a bottleneck at Solms unlikely to be a generic optical supplier problem as the DSLR lenses are cluttering up shelves. The lens manufacturing rate seemed marginal before the M9, as the M9 delivery time increased (until around the summer '10,) the manufacture rate seemed increasingly less than demand.

Leica can only use items from the glass catalogue, desirably only the preferred glass types, cause when it is quarantied you need to redesign like the CV f/1.2 35mm.

Leica may be unwilling to spend money for short term demand, e.g. capital investement for more CNC machines and staff. Although they should be able to buy in piece parts.

They may be giving all commitment to extracting body sales from the M9 popularity. May not be a good idea in long term, 'bean counters' & bungee management, tend to have limited models of the future.

Cosina have probably increased their M lens rate, since the M9 was announced. Some people will never repopulate the gbag... many of the Leica shops now have cabinets with Leica lenses, ZM lenses and CV lenses segregated, seems curious that.

Noel

LeicaPassion · June 29, 2011

I believe the hardest lens to buy new is the 90mm Summicron ASP. Can anyone report on the time they have had to spend on the waiting list for this lens?

Last November, I put my name on the list, and received it about 1 month later. The NY dealer had received 2 90s. I was very lucky.

Shadow Blaster · June 29, 2011

Not many seem to want Summarits or Elmars. Those seem to be in plentiful supply. I believe the hardest lens to buy new is the 90mm Summicron ASP. Can anyone report on the time they have had to spend on the waiting list for this lens?

It took me well over a year to find get one. I finally got a call from the dealer I was using that one had just showed up and did I still want one - the answer was a quick yes. All in all it was quite frustrating. Good luck to you!

John S.

earleygallery · June 29, 2011

OK, I just got hold of a 50 lux, stripped it down and it's taken me 1hr 28mins 18s to build it again.

I do have a few odd parts leftover though

Lord Fluff · June 29, 2011

...waiting lists are good for Leica, Amrit.

While they are a good *sign*, they're not the economic nirvana people would have you believe.

Having demand exceed supply by a large margin is not maximising profits, which is what most companies seek to do. Thankfully thus far Leica don't seem to be pushing prices up incrementally to find the knee in the curve.

I'll grant you that demand being above supply however is preferable to a large excess of supply over demand......

aesop · June 30, 2011

While they are a good *sign*, they're not the economic nirvana people would have you believe.

Having demand exceed supply by a large margin is not maximising profits, which is what most companies seek to do. Thankfully thus far Leica don't seem to be pushing prices up incrementally to find the knee in the curve.

I'll grant you that demand being above supply however is preferable to a large excess of supply over demand......

...with respect, Lord Fluff, your assertion does not necessarily apply to niche or specialist companies.

I am aware that certain marques can ramp up lens production at the drop of a hat. I would however hesitate to wager that any of them could match Leica lens' quality *across the board*. To my mind, as much as Leica (a small company) would love to churn out more lenses in order to maximise profits, there is always a critical point beyond which any further investment in, say, lens production becomes counter-productive. I do not know that point. Then again, that may be because I am neither a bean-counter nor an optics quality control specialist in the employ of Leica.

As an ordinary Leica user with absolutely no claim to fame, I personally find it re-assuring that the phrase "short-term" does not carry much weight within Leica's lexicon, particularly with the optics folks. Quality must be maintained. IMHO.

marknorton · June 30, 2011

The production of a Leica lens is the culmination of a whole series of different processes. Given the parts, I expect a lens can be assembled quite quickly but getting to that point might take months.

There's an interesting article in BJP this week which reveals Japanese super-telephotos are also made in batches because of variability in the optical characteristics in the glass. The design is fine tuned to match the actual glass and a batch of lenses is made using this glass. A small stock of, for example, front lens elements is retained for repairs to that batch. Once it runs out, lenses cannot be repaired which is why these lenses come with a protective meniscus.

Not relevant to Leica, perhaps, but shows the business of building lenses is as much art as it is science.

StephenPatterson · July 1, 2011

Boy: Mr. Owl, how many licks does it take to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop!?