shootinglulu Posted June 16, 2011 Share #1 Posted June 16, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello.. A lot of my photo's taken with M9 and 50 Lux asph have flare typical of the example here. This was taken today in my conservatory in the evening light,,I have many shots with flare taken in lower light. I sent the lens to Solms but they could find no reflex or problem with the lens. A week after recieving the lens back I sent them more examples of the flare and I returned it with the M9 but still they found no reflex. I do not understand, I take shots with flare so easily! I find it hard to believe that this is normal, no other Leica lens I owned behaved like this on M8 or M9. Btw it is as bad without a filter. I use the hood a lot, but still, this lens is meant to be remarkably non flare prone? The camera is going back again on Monday because it came back last time with a broken scroll wheel:o..I am wondering if I should persist in asking Solms to get to the bottom of my problem or do I just have a bad copy of the lens or some other problem.? Thanks a lot for any advice. Lucy Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/154455-normal-flare/?do=findComment&comment=1704611'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 16, 2011 Posted June 16, 2011 Hi shootinglulu, Take a look here Normal flare?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
ho_co Posted June 16, 2011 Share #2 Posted June 16, 2011 You do have the hood extended, right? Are you using a filter on the lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootinglulu Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share #3 Posted June 16, 2011 I do have the hood extended quite often but I forget too, the flare is quite exaggerated and the lens seems very prone to it. The lens flares equally with or without a filter on. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted June 16, 2011 Share #4 Posted June 16, 2011 I don't have M9 and i don't have the lens in question but it is no brainer those images are abnormal - especially there appear no strong light source in the image to induce flare. I have used many lenses including many Leica lenses on both film and digital, pushed them to the extreme and never seen anything so bad, if this was mine i would be very unhappy. Do you use any other lenses with your M9 or only 50f1.4, I ask this to eliminate the camera. Rather than sending gear for service I would first establish contact with somebody in Leica organisation who speaks sense, email images with description and give them chance to comment. Fix or replacement under warranty could be logical step. Lulu, good luck with this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted June 16, 2011 Share #5 Posted June 16, 2011 I don't have an M9, but I've just bought a secondary hood for my M8 for exactly the reason you've shown. With a filter (required by the M8), the 50/1.4 hood just doesn't extend far enough to be effective. With the M8's crop factor, I can screw a hood into the filter and not get mechanical vignetting. Unfortunately, I can't say whether putting a more effective hood on the lens will do much to solve the problem, because I just got the hood a couple days ago and haven't had a chance to try it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gib_robinson Posted June 16, 2011 Share #6 Posted June 16, 2011 I agree with Mladen, the flare looks odd. I have the lens and use it regularly on my M9. I have never seen a flare pattern like that. I have seen flare when I shoot very close to the sun, but the 50 'lux, in my experience, is not a flare-prone lens. I would encourage you to do some testing of other lenses and see if you can duplicate the issue. --Gib Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgray Posted June 17, 2011 Share #7 Posted June 17, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I shoot with my 50/1.4 ASPH quite a bit (with a filter) and haven't seen flare like that. Might be something wrong. In my experience, filters don't usually add that kind of flare anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colorflow Posted June 17, 2011 Share #8 Posted June 17, 2011 I have shot with two different copies of the 50 Lux ASPH on my M9 and have never seen anything like this. The lens is very flare resistent. Much more so than previous versions and the Cron 50. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootinglulu Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share #9 Posted June 17, 2011 Thankyou very much for your help. I don't have another lens to compare results in the same situations. I used to own the 35mm Summarit and 28mm Summicron, neither flared at all. Looking back over many pictures taken with the Lux, I realise shots which I had presumed over exposed just had flare as they had the orange arc at the edge of the picture. The problem is frequent but Leica say they cannot make the flare happen in the Leica workshops, it is very fustrating. The lens has been looked over twice, the coatings checked and no fault found, the camera checked too. Today I will try to establish some conversation with someone at Leica though I am not sure how. They tell me they cannot find a reflex and I guess I am supposed to live with this, I hate that flare. Thankyou very much Lucy Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/154455-normal-flare/?do=findComment&comment=1704887'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 17, 2011 Share #10 Posted June 17, 2011 This kind of flare I got on this lens using the M8. It turned out that the cause was an Ir filter with a chrome ring in combination with the short hood. Changing the filter to a black one and using a decent hood eliminated the problem. I have not seen it on the M9 but I hardly ever use a filter.The pattern you show is fairly typical for filter flare. Erwin Puts notes that " flare surpression on this lens is outstandingly good". If Leica finds it within spec, please check flaring without a filter again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted June 17, 2011 Share #11 Posted June 17, 2011 This is definitely not normal. As Jaap has suggested, try to find out whether the problem is filter related. Without a filter, however, this lens should not produce anything near this. I have used my 50 asph in strong sunlight, and with a chrome filter on it there a no reflexes at all. I find this lens to be very flare resistant, whereas with its predecessor it was much more easy to get flare. Don't give up, this needs to be fixed. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootinglulu Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share #12 Posted June 17, 2011 I use a black B+W filter and I have removed it a few times to see the difference when I get flare. The flare is identical with or without the filter. The dog picture above is one of two where I quickly removed the filter but it made no difference. I have asked Leica for some more help. It has been fustrating to be without my camera for 7 weeks in all then told a problem cannot be found in the Leica labs and to experience the flare so easily in my conservatory when I get it back. Your help is really appreciated, thankyou. Lucy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted June 17, 2011 Share #13 Posted June 17, 2011 I use a black B+W filter and I have removed it a few times to see the difference when I get flare. The flare is identical with or without the filter. The dog picture above is one of two where I quickly removed the filter but it made no difference. I have asked Leica for some more help. It has been fustrating to be without my camera for 7 weeks in all then told a problem cannot be found in the Leica labs and to experience the flare so easily in my conservatory when I get it back. Your help is really appreciated, thankyou. Lucy Hi Lucy I have seen similar problems with my shooting mates M8 and c5cm cron (cron was box new), I gave him a deeper hood, but it made no difference, he was using a UV/IR filter. He was shootng in low sun into dark streets, sun just out of frame & got interesting iis images on 5-10% of shots. Your scenario is similar, think it is reflection of the front face of the sensor,back into lens, and then back on to sensor, you can get this with film too or with filters but it is less pronounced. My earlier but otherwise identical cron does not do this (on my film cameras), annoyingly, not detected it at all. Dont use any filters, use deep hood, french flag of you are using a tripod.. If you are willng to put up with it mask hood into rectangle with masking tape. Leica are probably aware of the syndrome. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shootinglulu Posted June 17, 2011 Author Share #14 Posted June 17, 2011 Hi Noel.Thankyou. I guess a larger hood and masking tape may improve the flare syndrome but I want to be one of the majority who do not experience these flare problems with this camera/lens. Would the syndrome you mention be solved with a new sensor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted June 17, 2011 Share #15 Posted June 17, 2011 Hi Lucy You are suffering from a high contast environment, take photos when sun is higher or further off axis, easier then my friends street shooting spring or fall with low sun, in evenings, we only get out of work late. If the sensor front face had (even) better anti reflection coating it would only be a marginal difference, the contrast range is way too high, a DLSR with zoom could be worse. If you are communicating with Leica they may concur. An X100 may be rather worse too. Try moving back into the room to use the room as a 'lens hood'. When steet shooting spring or fall I use (simpler/smaller) lenses with square hoods, Leica or CV, with film, still get some flare say one in 100 or less but not normally off the film. Shooting a gig with with Fresels & profiles can be a problem as well. Try a different lens e.g. Apo75mm f/2 or 35mm lux, or if you can get one the Nikkor from the S3 mellium rangefinder in S to M adapter may be better, supposedly. The lens reviews just dont bother to tell you these things.. Noel P.S. Umberella on tripod as hood Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2011 Share #16 Posted June 18, 2011 Hi Lucy, Got this lens, too. Doesn't flare to the shown extent on any camera here, including the M9. Regardless of the filter or the hood's position. I have an extra hood on, from the M8 days, that doesn't vignet on the M9 either. But this lens isn't supposed to do this under practically any circumstances. How's cycling? Best, Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted June 18, 2011 Share #17 Posted June 18, 2011 See here for similar flare with non ASPH: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/185289-summilux-scratch-flare.html Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmradman Posted June 18, 2011 Share #18 Posted June 18, 2011 I don't have M9 and i don't have the lens in question but it is no brainer those images are abnormal - especially there appear no strong light source in the image to induce flare. I have used many lenses including many Leica lenses on both film and digital, pushed them to the extreme and never seen anything so bad, if this was mine i would be very unhappy. Do you use any other lenses with your M9 or only 50f1.4, I ask this to eliminate the camera. Rather than sending gear for service I would first establish contact with somebody in Leica organisation who speaks sense, email images with description and give them chance to comment. Fix or replacement under warranty could be logical step. Lulu, good luck with this. Following my earlier post I took delivery of brand new Summilux 50mm ASPH, shot 2 films in early evening and early morning today with lots of reflections (sun & surface water after rain) - high contrast environment. Shot with and without UV filter (Leica own) with built in lens hood extended. Performance is solid flare free (big sigh of relief for me). I will assert my earlier observation; you have problematic lens or you are very skillful in capturing stray light consistently. Fast film work flow - ASDA provided quick development & scanning Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted June 18, 2011 Share #19 Posted June 18, 2011 Yes the 50/1.4 asph does not flare normally and has nothing to do with the 35/1.4 pre-asph which flares a lot. My advice FWIW: put a serious hood on your lens for sake of reducing the number of possible causes and remove the filter for a while. Contrary to what you can read here and there, a filter has *never* good effects on flare. If you don't need that filter absolutely, remove it and test the lens again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJP Posted June 18, 2011 Share #20 Posted June 18, 2011 See here for similar flare with non ASPH:http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/185289-summilux-scratch-flare.html Jeff Ah, that sheds some further light. What I see in these images (& also in the ones shown by Lulu) is not flare but "internal parts being illuminated by bright light outside the field of view". It is not the optical system that is doing this, or a least not like a flaring lens losing contrast, getting washed out etc. (Think MATE tri-elmar 35-50-28/4 ASPH, or 90/2.8 tele-elmarits). Flare is typically due to internal reflections between the (not sufiiciently) coated glass elements. Lulu, I think that it would be good to "reconstruct" the point of view that caused this problem and play around with aperture & try blocking stray light from sky above, using your hand or umbrella or whatever. My guess is that the phenomenon will disappear at F/2 or smaller and wil not occur at any aperture if the lens is shielded enough. I expect that with your shots you had "object in the shadow & a lot of oblique light hitting the lens at a weird angle (not even close to being in view)". If that is the case you may have found one of the weak spots of the 50/1.4 ASPH. Probably a slighty longer hood will solve the problem but will also lead to slight vignetting. Something you could experiment with as well just to check whether the hypothesis will float or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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