Why did Leica drop their R-clients so unceremoniously?

[stunsworth]

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Yes you can use screw thread lenses on an M, but Leica suddenly dropped the thread mount lenses, so you can't buy new Leica lenses for your lllf.

 

Not so long ago Leica would make current lenses available in screw mount provided that you order a large enough quantity - and paid for them up front. I think this was what behind the far eastern release of the screw mount 35mm Summicron a few years ago.

 

Of course paying for a couple of hundred Summicrons might cause some of us problems, and there may be some current lenses that couldn't be made in screw mount due to the physical attributes of the lenses.

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[jaapv]

Is anybody else old enough to remember the hullabuloo when Canon switched lns mounts witout any retrocompatibility? There wasn't even Internet back then, but the complaints were loud enough. Leica is careful with their old customers. Not only can you use just about any lens back to the early 1940ies on your M9 - but any modern lens can be used on any M back to the M3 - all due to customer- concious design.

[earleygallery]

Of course paying for a couple of hundred Summicrons might cause some of us problems

 

Not a bad idea though, plenty of lens caps and red dots for when they get lost/fall off, and I might even dare not to use a filter, if the lens gets scratched I'd have a few spares back home.

[Guido]

Is anybody else old enough to remember the hullabuloo when Canon switched lns mounts witout any retrocompatibility? There wasn't even Internet back then, but the complaints were loud enough.

I picked up a small part (an A-1 with 3 FD primes) of a larger collection for next to nothing some time ago. I don't remember the FD era, but considering the quality and results of the FD glass, I guess the former owner must have wept bitterly when he wrote off his investment.

[zlatkob]

Is anybody else old enough to remember the hullabuloo when Canon switched lns mounts witout any retrocompatibility? There wasn't even Internet back then, but the complaints were loud enough. Leica is careful with their old customers. Not only can you use just about any lens back to the early 1940ies on your M9 - but any modern lens can be used on any M back to the M3 - all due to customer- concious design.

Canon made an EOS to FD adapter (part number is C54-2131, $240) as a solution for its long lenses. It contained optics so that the lenses would retain infinity focus. Bob Atkins writes about it here. There are also third-party solutions from China and Japan available on eBay.

[ho_co]

Nay-sayers at the time declared that "EOS" meant End Of System.

[jaapv]

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Canon made an EOS to FD adapter (part number is C54-2131, $240) as a solution for its long lenses. It contained optics so that the lenses would retain infinity focus. Bob Atkins writes about it here. There are also third-party solutions from China and Japan available on eBay.

Yes. I understand these solutions were far from optimal.

[zlatkob]

It's funny to joke that EOS means "End Of System", but with the termination of the R system we have a REAL End Of System. Your argument that Leica "is careful with their old customers" will have more credibility if and when they provide an R solution.

 

Canon actually provided a partial solution for FD lens users. More importantly, they offered a new system. Many photographers quickly went to the EOS system because the autofocus turned out to be quite useful. Also, the EOS system offered some fabulous new lenses. Sports photographers quickly realized that they could get more keepers with EOS autofocus than with any other brand's manual focus. Some Nikon users who had scoffed at the idea of autofocus were soon using the EOS system too. Before long, sporting events were dominated by Canon EOS lenses.

[earleygallery]

Does anyone here know the song "The cow kicked Nelly in the belly in the barn" ?

[jaapv]

It's funny to joke that EOS means "End Of System", but with the termination of the R system we have a REAL End Of System. Your argument that Leica "is careful with their old customers" will have more credibility if and when they provide an R solution.

 

Canon actually provided a partial solution for FD lens users. More importantly, they offered a new system. Many photographers quickly went to the EOS system because the autofocus turned out to be quite useful. Also, the EOS system offered some fabulous new lenses. Sports photographers quickly realized that they could get more keepers with EOS autofocus than with any other brand's manual focus. Some Nikon users who had scoffed at the idea of autofocus were soon using the EOS system too. Before long, sporting events were dominated by Canon EOS lenses.

Give me one other camera manufacturer that has full two-way retrocompatability of both lenses and bodies for over 50 years...And yes - Leica is acutely aware of the plight of R owners and is working on it - but it takes time.

[Posto 6]

What are Panasonic supposed to be examining with respect to R lenses?

[earleygallery]

Some fun for the weekend, delight your family and friends by singing the Cow Kicked Nelly song;

 

Oh, the cow kicked Nelly in the belly in the barn

Oh, the cow kicked Nelly in the belly in the barn

Oh, the cow kicked Nelly in the belly in the barn

And the doctor said it would do no harm

 

Second verse, same as the first

A little bit louder and a little bit worse...

 

(repeat ad naseum)

 

Reminds me of this thread.

[ho_co]

It's funny to joke that EOS means "End Of System", but with the termination of the R system we have a REAL End Of System....

There's the irony! What was supposed to be a slap in the face became the birth of a new system and a new strength for Canon. A company has to know when to pull the plug.

 

 

... Many photographers quickly went to the EOS system because the autofocus turned out to be quite useful....

I remember hearing at the time a Leica tech rep with a German accent quip "Autofocus means out-of-focus." (Plays better said aloud with exaggerated German accent.)

 

 

I just wish they'd drop the mantra, "Canon will never have any model number but '1' on their flagship camera."

[pico]

[...][...]The M9, whose demand from the market is in no small part from seekers of "luxury brand cachet" and who are in no way serious photographers, risks eventually losing it's current head of steam.

 

Now that is just plain incorrect. There are thousands of us who have used Leica M cameras for their compact, easy-to-handle and focus rangefinders, despite their expense because they are worth it. Leica's venture into a full-frame digital version is entirely rational, a solid and necessary step in the evolution of the M range. I am not speaking only for myself when I say I've had (and still have) seven M cameras aquired over 40 years and an M9 (and likely buying one more M9).

 

It is not Leica loosing "it's (sic) head of steam" It is the confidence of the author of the OP.

 

Remember please- the M3 sold very well initially, and by the early 1960's had been overtaken by more fashionable equipment- with plummeting sales for the M-series generally, almost leading to the M-series being given the chop in the 1970's.

 

Those were the days when SLRs came onto the market. Beginning with the Exacta, Pentax Spotmatic, Nikon (in particular) and Canon. M cameras still sold well. The M4 in particular.

 

Is it conceivable that the lack of decisive communications on with respect to the R-series reflects an indecision similar to the "Midland moment" so beloved by Xmas (Noel)? Although most posters have an opinion, it would be rather nice to have some clarity, without doublespeak, on this issue from Leica themselves for once. No reading of tea-leaves by apologists- just a direct and honest appraisal of the situation.

 

Leica answered that question succinctly - the given direction of the R could not be competitive or profit-making given the nature of their business model which is a sustainable model, not a distruptive model.

 

NOW - just exactly what is the subtext of your posting? Doom and gloom. Nothing really rational at all.

[zlatkob]

Give me one other camera manufacturer that has full two-way retrocompatability of both lenses and bodies for over 50 years...

 

Nikon's F mount is from 1959, so that's 52 years. The M mount is from 1954, so that's 57 years ... a big 5 year difference. Now you'll say the F mount doesn't offer full 2-way retrocompatibility. Of course, because Nikon added extensive functionality in the intervening years.

 

It seems you want to prove that Leica offering absolutely nothing for R users is somehow better, more graceful or more caring than Canon offering a bona fide adapter from their old system to their new system and, moreover, offering a massively successful new system. I'm not convinced that offering nothing is better. If I had an expensive set of beautiful R lenses, I would be even less convinced.

[Posto 6]

NOW - just exactly what is the subtext of your posting? Doom and gloom. Nothing really rational at all.

 

I suggest you re-read my posts. Why adopt such a tone?

[pico]

STOP!!! We still haven't done with the "why did Leica dump the screw thread camera users" yet. Once we've got to the bottom of that, then we can move onto the R issue.

 

No no! The issue was the advance lever over the roller! What a stupid thing to do. Why, it would tear the film! Thus the double-stroke M3 as a compromise. What we need is a new MP with the original advance roller. Yeah, that's the ticket.

[pico]

I suggest you re-read my posts. Why adopt such a tone?

 

I'll tell you why the tone. You claim to be a shareholder-as-consumer in Leica. You are not. If you want to INVEST then buy stock (if they are public). Cameras are not investments.

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[jaapv]

Nikon's F mount is from 1959, so that's 52 years. The M mount is from 1954, so that's 57 years ... a big 5 year difference. Now you'll say the F mount doesn't offer full 2-way retrocompatibility. Of course, because Nikon added extensive functionality in the intervening years.

 

It seems you want to prove that Leica offering absolutely nothing for R users is somehow better, more graceful or more caring than Canon offering a bona fide adapter from their old system to their new system and, moreover, offering a massively successful new system. I'm not convinced that offering nothing is better. If I had an expensive set of beautiful R lenses, I would be even less convinced.

That is NOT what I am "trying to prove :confused:". All I am saying is that there is nothing unique about the situation. Systems come and systems go. Fortunately third parties have filled the gap - more or less - for the R system in the form of Canon adapters and Leitax mounts. None of Leicas doing, but good for the users.

[Posto 6]

You claim to be a shareholder-as-consumer in Leica. You are not. If you want to INVEST then buy stock (if they are public). Cameras are not investments.

We are talking about consumer goods and manufacturer support here, NOT objects of veneration or adoration. Let us be at least objective and realistic!

 

Leica are a commercial entity and almost certainly expect, as well as benefit from, customer feedback.