stonearabiapix Posted April 14, 2011 Share #1 Posted April 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) This could bring a tear to many of us. For more info, check it out here, RE-35 | Digital cartridges for analog 35-mm cameras Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/149130-new-life-for-old-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=1646126'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 14, 2011 Posted April 14, 2011 Hi stonearabiapix, Take a look here New life for old cameras. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
J_Thompson Posted April 14, 2011 Share #2 Posted April 14, 2011 One has to admit, it was a brilliantly executed April Fool's prank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted April 15, 2011 Share #3 Posted April 15, 2011 It will come, some day. It's too obvious to not being a happening thing. And when it does we'll be happy we didn't give all the old film cameras away to the kindergarten for the kids to play with in the sandbox... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 16, 2011 Share #4 Posted April 16, 2011 It will come, some day. It's too obvious to not being a happening thing. And when it does we'll be happy we didn't give all the old film cameras away to the kindergarten for the kids to play with in the sandbox... I disagree. I don't see there being much of a market for converting old film cameras to digital use, simply because there are now so many digital cameras in existence. Leica users may be the extent of the market. Do you think many are going to buy this just to shoot with an old Pentax, Minolta, or Nikon when they can simply buy a more recent used DSLR for very little? And other inexpensive digital cameras are ubiquitous today. I guess it could be a novelty for some camera collectors who may want to shoot the odd photo with an old camera. I bet it is possible to make something like this today, as eFilm had a similar model years ago. So this is not a very far fetched April fools joke. They could have just linked to the sites below. I'm not sure if models were ever sold. $699 MSRP for a 1.3 MP 2.85 crop sensor. This was very outdated way before the planned release date. And the eFilm inserts were not universal and only fit some cameras and Leica wasn't one of them. They originally intended to make a universal model but apparently they couldn't do it. The device will need some way to control it and see the results to be useful. Perhaps a wireless connection to a touch sensitive LCD panel that Velcros to the back of the camera is possible. Although unless it is universal, why not just remove the camera's back and make a one piece solution as Kodak and Leica did in the past? (Now, of course it could be much more compact.) But again, where is the market? More on the eFilm system. E Film http://www.technical-manuals.com/pdf/EFS1Manl.pdf http://www.imaging-resource.com/NEWS/989073052.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posto 6 Posted April 16, 2011 Share #5 Posted April 16, 2011 That assumes that costs remain high. These will drop dramatically as time goes by, and it will also be far easier to make such a product. I tend to agree with Thorsten on this front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 16, 2011 Share #6 Posted April 16, 2011 That assumes that costs remain high. These will drop dramatically as time goes by, and it will also be far easier to make such a product. I tend to agree with Thorsten on this front. No I don't assume costs for various parts will remain high. But the cost to make one of these will probably be substantial. To be useful it will need to be technologically competitive with modern digital offerings at the time of release. It will need to have a good screen, controls, video, sound, a high MP count, etc. A universal solution will probably be hard to find. Add up the development costs and then consider the size of the potential market. (How will you even determine this?) How inexpensive can it be to make this and why would anyone invest in making this? So price it at $100 retail and again at $500 and where is the break even point? What has been stopping anyone from making this? If Sony can today give you a Nex 5 with a zoom lens for $550, how inexpensive and good will this have to be to find a market other than a very tiny tiny niche? Yeah for the novelty of it, I'd buy one if I could get a full frame 10 megapixel+ version that can shoot 500+ images and has some controls and costs under $100... even if it doesn't have an LCD. But I don't even use my original Canon 1DS much these days so how much would I want to shoot with some old film camera? And if it is for film Leicas, how poor an image will one accept from it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posto 6 Posted April 16, 2011 Share #7 Posted April 16, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I see your point- but would it really need to have screens, etc? It could be marketed as a retro-style novelty, much in the same spirit as Lomography has been, but possibly with a broader potential market. I must say that I would not put my own money at risk developing such a product, but it could make sense for someone to do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 16, 2011 Share #8 Posted April 16, 2011 I see your point- but would it really need to have screens, etc? It could be marketed as a retro-style novelty, much in the same spirit as Lomography has been, but possibly with a broader potential market. I must say that I would not put my own money at risk developing such a product, but it could make sense for someone to do so. This is a bit more high tech than the Lomo cameras which probably don't cost much to design and make. I think one without an LCD will be very hard to control even if you don't care to see an image on it. Read over the links to the eFilm manual to see what they had to do with switches etc. to make that thing work and "communicate" through a little window. As I said previously, I think the technology now exists to control such a device wirelessly perhaps via an iPhone. But then the iPhone has a camera already doesn't it? So this thing would have to make really high quality images and work quickly too. But let's assume it is low priced, has no LCD, and is fairly low quality in the Lomography spirit. So is there a market for that? Maybe there are a bunch of Russian ex spy satellite experts working on this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Posto 6 Posted April 16, 2011 Share #9 Posted April 16, 2011 Who know, President Medvedev may even trade in his M9! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted April 17, 2011 Share #10 Posted April 17, 2011 I disagree. I don't see there being much of a market for converting old film cameras to digital use, simply because there are now so many digital cameras in existence. Leica users may be the extent of the market. I don't think it's coming either -- although I would like to be proven wrong. I don't even think Leica users will like it. The ones who love their film cameras have their film, and the ones who love digital already have a digital M. It would have to be pretty darned awesome (in quality, price and ease of use) to replace film and/or to replace the digital M. The device will need some way to control it and see the results to be useful. And not just control, but power. It will need a reliable, steady power source to power the sensor and to capture and store the data. Can they fit the power source in the cartridge? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 17, 2011 Share #11 Posted April 17, 2011 And not just control, but power. It will need a reliable, steady power source to power the sensor and to capture and store the data. Can they fit the power source in the cartridge? The batteries in the eFilm cart were said to do 200-300 shots. I agree with all you wrote. This was one of those things that probably sounded "good in theory" back in 1996 or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overgaard Posted April 17, 2011 Share #12 Posted April 17, 2011 Need I say more. Digital film would be a hit. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/149130-new-life-for-old-cameras/?do=findComment&comment=1648180'>More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 17, 2011 Share #13 Posted April 17, 2011 Yes, I believe you do need to say more. What is that picture supposed to convince me of? At one time you could have posted an image of a hundred press photographers with film cameras, or a thousand tourists in Venice with film cameras. It doesn't meant that a single one of them will want that product today let alone several years from now. I got rid of almost all of my 35mm film cameras a few years ago. I thought the appeal of using old film cameras was linked to the appeal of shooting film. In any case, there must be some reasons why this product is not available today. What do you think those reasons could be? This solution has been available for a long time for MF cameras. Now if someone can come up with a reasonably priced 6x9 or 4x5 digital solution, I'm sure it will sell like hot nann. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted April 17, 2011 Share #14 Posted April 17, 2011 Hmm... Some people will never quite get it. Being able to drop a digital module into a decent camera and having the best of both worlds is an attractive concept. I enjoy using the camera - I enjoy the journey of using a mechanism to capture an image not a sterile lump of melted plastic. I enjoy the life and soul of metal gears and glass and brass and cloth moving and acting in harmony to capture an image. I enjoy extending the working life of machines that deserve to live. I would enjoy not carrying a digicam for the odd occasion when I want to take a snap. Look on eBay at any time. Type in the word "camera". Look at completed items. Right now, for instance, it is showing 16,777 film cameras sold, in, what, the last 60 days? For sale right now there are 21,604 items listed. Someone is selling them. Someone is buying them. I got rid of almost all of my 35mm film cameras a few years ago. ...then you have no dog in this fight. No table stake. No interest, surely, beyond morbid curiosity...? Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted April 17, 2011 Share #15 Posted April 17, 2011 I saw two Holgas in Brighton yesterday. More than Leicas ( apart from in our party ). Someone is going to realise that 120 is making a come back one day. There's room for 120, 35mm and digital. It's a pity more people can't accept and embrace this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Valdemar Posted April 17, 2011 Share #16 Posted April 17, 2011 I think what actually is going to happen is that Chinese manufacturers will start to develop and market DSLRs that use defunct manual focus mounts. In 5 years or less inexpensive full frame sensor modules will become available. There are millions of manual focus lens floating around really cheap. It would be smart for some Chinese manufacturer to come out with a Nikon FE2 type body with a full frame digital sensor, and a LCD display, with mounts for various lenses. Nikon, Canon FD, Minolta, Konica Hexanon, Pentax K, etc. Even obscure ones like Petri. No bells and whistles, just a simple manual focus DSLR. Just make a universal body and stick different coupled mounts on them. They would sell millions. The Japanese camera companies should start thinking out of the box. The Chinese are buying up all the old film cameras now. A simple, lightweight, manual focus DSLR would explode in sales. Especially if it cost under the $1000 price point. (In NYC, I see hundreds of young people with film cameras every day. Asian girls think they are cool. College kids are fascinated by them. The time is here) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 17, 2011 Share #17 Posted April 17, 2011 Hmm... Some people will never quite get it. Duh! I get the appeal. But from a practical sense, I think you are dreaming. I'd like a powerful beautiful high end sports car that gets 100 mpg and costs $10,000 too. Do you really think a top quality full frame solution will be possible that can simply drop into any camera and be at a reasonable price within how many years? If it is not FF and not top quality in every way, (resolution, speed, DR, high ISO capability, versatility, reviewing images, etc.) exactly what is the appeal supposed to be to me and many others? Just so we can have the pleasure of using old cameras without using film? I can't see a universal device like this being made without it having a lot of compromises compared with a modern digital camera. It is a kludge concept in need of an elegant implementation. Just trying to make a full frame sensor that can fit into the film gate at the film plane for a wide range of cameras will be a major challenge. And if it isn't full frame, that will be a bummer for a lot of those old cameras and lenses and how are you going to mask countless different viewfinders? There are many challenges to this concept once you start digging deep if it is to be close to as useful as an M9 or a DSLR are today. But I too hope and dream that it happens too. I simply don't think it will. I'm sure there were a lot of horse drawn carriages that saw little use after the automobile took off. And I bet very few of these got an engine attached to them. But if you just want to wish for it, go ahead. Let's see how long it takes before someone makes one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 17, 2011 Share #18 Posted April 17, 2011 Need I say more. Digital film would be a hit. That went over, or under my head. What is the point, please? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted April 18, 2011 Share #19 Posted April 18, 2011 The Japanese camera companies should start thinking out of the box. The Chinese are buying up all the old film cameras now. A simple, lightweight, manual focus DSLR would explode in sales. Especially if it cost under the $1000 price point. Well the R system failed and perhaps the lack of AF was the main reason. Keep in mind that the profit in the camera industry is the lenses and not the bodies. (Zeiss and other companies are making lenses that fit several bodies.) So I'm not sure how Chinese companies are going to undercut Canon, Nikon, Sony and other players on that count. Can't many of these old lenses already work on current DSLRs (especially Canons) via adapters? Do you plan to control the auto diaphragm in all those different systems? A lot of ideas seem plausible until you start dealing with hard numbers. Designing a system that is dependent largely on outdated out of production cameras (for the drop in sensor) or lenses (for the universal MF DSLR body) will be a pretty tough sell to investors. You'd really have to show demand. How would you do that? I think the situation is that there already are plenty of digital photo solutions to meet most of the demand. And I don't see a lot of those old cameras being so much sweeter than the newer ones. I liked the Nikon F2 but I wouldn't want to use one in place of a D3X. How many will choose a Minolta SRT 101 or Canon FTB with this device over a modern DSLR? And Leica lenses need special micro prisms. Many other non SLR cameras will need the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Washington Posted April 18, 2011 Share #20 Posted April 18, 2011 Sorry, but all these opinions make me dizzy. Is this for real or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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