BonneyD Posted April 4, 2011 Share #1 Posted April 4, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi everyone just looking for a bit of advice. I currently have a X1 and absolutely love it. I'm into street photography, it's the perfect size, weight, I use manual focus (set to 6ft) and just shoot. But now I want to get a rangefinder, here's the dilemma. M7 - cost of film, getting it processed, bigger learning curve maybe, do I need scanner for Post processing (extra cost), M7 second hand bit cheaper than M8, compliment x1? M8 - old technology, maybe I won't use x1 anymore but love it and want to keep using it, still pretty pricey here in Aus and hard to get. Please someone share your wisdom I am driving my husband crazy with Leica talk, which most of the time he has no idea what I'm talking about. Thanks: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 4, 2011 Posted April 4, 2011 Hi BonneyD, Take a look here M8 vs M7. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Archiver Posted April 4, 2011 Share #2 Posted April 4, 2011 It will cost you only a bit less to get a decent M7 as it will to get a secondhand M8, given current Australian prices. I got my M7 for $3100, and I've seen the M8 going secondhand for $3500. So if you are looking at it from a purely monetary perspective, IMO the M8 makes more sense. You'll be able to take thousands of photos with the M8, whereas the film, developing and scanning will cost increasingly more. If you went with the M7, you do have the advantage of using any given lens at its original focal length. A 35mm really will be a 35mm, rather than a 46mm on the M8. As you like the X1 with its equivalent focal length of 36mm, the most likely lens for you would be in the 28mm range. Leica 28mm f2.8 Elmarit Zeiss 28mm f2.8 Biogon Voigtlander 28mm f2 Voigtlander 28mm f1.9 (leica screw mount) If you went with the M7, you'll need to get the film developed and scanned, as well as buy the film itself. Depending on what film you like to shoot, this can add up, and will also limit the amount of shooting you feel free to do. On one hand, you will most likely have a better keeper ratio as you will choose your shots carefully. On the other, you won't feel the freedom to experiment, nor will you have the ease and instant feedback of digital. You will only need a scanner if you are dissatisfied with the scan results from your lab. I am pretty happy with my lab, but they don't scan at a particularly high resolution, and I love the resolution I get from my M9. If you want high resolution you'll either need to pay your lab much more, or get your own scanner, like an Epson or a Plustek, and you'll have another set of skills that will take time to learn and implement. Either the M7 or M8 will complement the X1. The X1's autofocus and matrix metering make it a much easier camera to shoot than either of the others. If you've never owned a Leica, this might throw you a bit, as it must be precisely focused and correctly metered. The M8 didn't stop producing good photos just because something else came out, and the same goes for the M7. Both will take very handsome photos; it's up to you as to how you want to deal with them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted April 4, 2011 Share #3 Posted April 4, 2011 Hi everyone just looking for a bit of advice. I currently have a X1 and absolutely love it. I'm into street photography, it's the perfect size, weight, I use manual focus (set to 6ft) and just shoot. But now I want to get a rangefinder, here's the dilemma. M7 - cost of film, getting it processed, bigger learning curve maybe, do I need scanner for Post processing (extra cost), M7 second hand bit cheaper than M8, compliment x1) M8. Film for the first user is too daunting. You probably will not notice the virtues of film presented through digital transformations. Keep with digital. Better yet, get an M9, do not look back and be happy. -- Pico - the 40+ year film user who just got an M9 (and going back to film until my self-destroyed M9 is repaired.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 4, 2011 Share #4 Posted April 4, 2011 Consider carefully - I quite like film, but scanning drives me up the wall. Life is too short! Finding a lab that does good high-res scans is not so easy - and it adds to the cost. M8 and above all M9 images are so good that they seem to satisfy most old film users. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonneyD Posted April 4, 2011 Author Share #5 Posted April 4, 2011 Okay so you're saying M8 or save for the next 12 months and get M9! But do you think this will make my X1 sit in the study and gather dust. Is there a need for both? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted April 4, 2011 Share #6 Posted April 4, 2011 ...M8 and above all M9 images are so good that they seem to satisfy most old film users. ...most, but not all... Regards, Bill (who has just returned from a long weekend shooting a lot of film ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 4, 2011 Share #7 Posted April 4, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I think it depends on what and which, Bill. I still take slides. There is nothing that can beat a projected slide imo. For color prints, I prefer the M9, for B&W it needs a darn good digital workflow to come close to the chemical process. I do dislike the hybrid way of scanning and processing digitally, though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang Esslinger Posted April 4, 2011 Share #8 Posted April 4, 2011 I started with an M7 some years ago when the M8 was too expensive. Since I bought a (used) M8 I have never used my M7 again - too much hassle! With M8 you also have the advantage of changing ISO when needed. However I still struggle with the crop factor but if you start new you don't have the "wrong lenses". The M8 is also not very quiet, at least much louder than my M7. If you go for the M8 and like it you will probably no longer use the X1. At least that happened to me with a CM when I went for the M7. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsrockit Posted April 4, 2011 Share #9 Posted April 4, 2011 Wait for a good used M8 to come up for sale (i.e. good price) and buy a M2 / M3 / M4.2... have em both! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiver Posted April 5, 2011 Share #10 Posted April 5, 2011 The X1 already takes fine photos, and does better than the M8 at ISO's higher than 640. Many say that the M8 is best up to ISO640. The X1 handles much higher ISO's and very well. The X1 will be your camera for when you want something smaller than the M8. It can slip in a purse, bag or big pocket with relative ease. It autofocuses accurately and will serve you in good stead when you want exact focus, rather than using hyperfocal technique. I don't see it gathering dust on the shelf at all. At the moment, just for the heck of it, I am leaving the M9 at home and shooting with the M7 + 50 Summicron and the Ricoh GXR with the 28mm module. Both cameras complement each other well, but I would not shoot film all the time. I will use the M9 again soon enough when the joy takes me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonneyD Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share #11 Posted April 5, 2011 Hey archiver I checked out your flickr page, some great shots on there, especially the M9:) I noticed you've used a few cameras, including a Zeiss Icon, there is currently a Zeiss ikon contina-magic III, with a 2.8 45mm on eBay. Thought this might be a good way to get a feel for a rangefinder and film and hopefully not costing too much! What are your thoughts? To everyone, I guess I can't really justify having an X1 and another Leica digital. I really only get to shoot maybe once or twice a month, living 3 hours away from major city where I like to do street. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted April 6, 2011 Share #12 Posted April 6, 2011 Hi Bonney, Given that you already have a digital camera that you are happy with, why not shoot an M7 and try something different? Even if it is only for special occasions, you can obtain very different looking images with an M7 compared to your X1. If you want to develop your own film you can keep costs down somewhat, and it is quite satisfying in a way that digital developing generally is not. Scanning is not much fun, I will agree. However, it is only one small part of the process and is only relevant if you want to end up with a digital product. If you are happy with a print, then film will be fine. With film too, most your creative choces are made before you take the picture, especially with regard to film type and filtration. One last point I will make, is that the M7 is unlikely to be superceeded any time in the future. All the best with your decision, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiver Posted April 7, 2011 Share #13 Posted April 7, 2011 Hey archiver I checked out your flickr page, some great shots on there, especially the M9:) I noticed you've used a few cameras, including a Zeiss Icon, there is currently a Zeiss ikon contina-magic III, with a 2.8 45mm on eBay. Thought this might be a good way to get a feel for a rangefinder and film and hopefully not costing too much! What are your thoughts? Hi Bonney. The Ikon I shoot is far and away a completely different beast from the old Ikons. Mine is a current-production rangefinder similar in function to the M7, whereas the Contina-Matic III is a pretty antiquated thing. The images you saw were taken with the Ikon and lenses that include the Zeiss 28/2.8, Voigtlander 25/4P and Voigtlander 35/1.4. The M9 shots you saw were taken with a range of Leica, Zeiss and Voigtlander lenses. If you were looking to get into the rangefinder film experience on a budget, perhaps consider a Voigtlander Bessa R3A. It is operationally similar to modern day rangefinders like the M7 and Ikon, has auto-exposure, and takes Leica lenses. That way, you can find out if a modern film rangefinder is for you. Depending on how much film you shoot on a regular basis, it could work out cheaper for you in the shorter term than a M8. The money you would spend on a Bessa R3A and a couple of Voigtlander lenses will cost less than a new Zeiss Ikon. The money you'd spend on a nice secondhand M8 will give you a R3A, three lenses and film and development costs for quite a while. The Voigtlander 28mm f2, 35mm f1.4 and 50mm f1.5 lenses would be a very economical and comprehensive entry into film rangefinder shooting. (Mind you, you have to go to another forum to discuss them!) As this could become less than Leica-like, shoot me a PM if you want to talk about this some more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted April 8, 2011 Share #14 Posted April 8, 2011 ... perhaps consider a Voigtlander Bessa R3A. ... Bonney, You need to be aware that while the Bessa is a fine camera you would miss out on one of the major strengths of the Leica M that stands the marque apart from the rest - the viewfinder. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonneyD Posted April 8, 2011 Author Share #15 Posted April 8, 2011 Thanks for the feedback everyone, I'm now seriously considering a used M6, I can pick one up on Ebay in excellent condition for around the AUD $1000 mark. Then if I purchase a nice little 50mm lens (any suggestion welcome) I believe I will have a nice kit for street photography. I have the X1 35mm, to use as my main camera whilst I'm still getting through the learning curve of film and rangefinder. Then Ill have the film, rangefinder, 50mm, to learn and experience. If I love rangefinders, I might in a few years lash out and get an M9, might be an M10 out then, so Ill pick it up a bit cheaper. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doolittle Posted April 8, 2011 Share #16 Posted April 8, 2011 M6 - great decision! Works without batteries (just lose the meter) and price wise seem undervalued. Plenty of great 50mm lenses available. Older model Summicrons worth looking into. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted April 8, 2011 Share #17 Posted April 8, 2011 Bonney, One of the best value lenses is the (second version) Leica 50mm f/2.8 Elmar, which is tiny and light and collapsible but produces very sharp pictures with good contrast. If you look for a second version then the serial number needs to be higher than 3668031. The 50mm f/2 Summicron is an old favourite of many and a very dependable all-round lens that gives excellent results while being fast enough for a general purpose lens. Try to find a later model version 3 or 4 with a serial number higher than 2269251 so there'll be little likelihood of haze or separation. The Voigtlander 50mm f/2.5 Color Skopar is an inexpensive lens which gets good reviews too. I feel sure that you'll get plenty of other help in choosing a 50 mm lens. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonneyD Posted April 9, 2011 Author Share #18 Posted April 9, 2011 Thanks for detailed info on lenses I'll be sure to check these out. Has anyone ever heard of or seen any fake Leica M's coming out of Asia. Husband worried I'm going to get ripped off if I buy from O/S. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted April 9, 2011 Share #19 Posted April 9, 2011 There are no fake M cameras or lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BonneyD Posted April 25, 2011 Author Share #20 Posted April 25, 2011 Hi guys, I'm back! Sorry to rehash this but after researching film development costs here in Aus, I think I'm now leaning towards M8. A roll of b&w film is going to cost me $14 dev only, $24 dev + cd, $40 dev + cd + prints, plus the price of buying film and postage as I live 300km from Melbourne. Wow!!!! This has turned me right off film. So now my question is would you still buy an M8 today or would you save a bit more and buy a M8.2, looking to upgrade to M9 maybe three or four years down the track (M9 not really an option right now). Thanks so much Deb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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