Struggling with M8 decision

[bpalme]

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Where's you're local shop? Do they have a silver?

[Mikael Siirilä]

Mscore what lenses were they?

 

Summicron 50mm first one, Summilux 50mm ASPH second one. I regret selling off the Summicron. The sharpness of the images I have take with that is just amazing.

[BLeventhal]

Where's you're local shop? Do they have a silver?

 

Both bodies are black. My local shop is National Camera Exchange in MN. They have a website where they post their used Leica gear. They are very reasonable and will often go for a 10% reduction if you press them a bit.

 

Check out the website at: Digital Cameras accessories and photographic equipment - National Camera Exchange Stores Minnesota Minneapolis St-Paul MN Hit the used gear link, and follow it to Leica. They have some real bargains in Leica M-Film Rangefinders right now.

 

cheers,

bruce

[BLeventhal]

Let us know how you make out Bruce

 

Robert

 

I have looked at both bodies and decided that, while I want a Leica Digital Rangefinder, the M8 is just not mature enough in the cycle.

I handled the M9 w/ a 35mm summarit ... big mistake! I shot it a bit and now know that this is the body for me. The resolution and detail of this combination really surprised me, as it appears to be significantly cleaner than my unprocessed 5DmkII files.

While I can not afford the M9 today, my wife and I have agreed to set up an "M9-savings account." It may take 6 months, but it looks as if this will be the direction I go into the future.

 

Once again, thank you for all of your candid comments about the M8... I envy those of you who are currently enjoying your Leica bodies/lenses and hope to join the ranks of Leica shooters in the future.

 

regards,

bruce

[Solar B]

Well Bruce iam sure that we all do wish you the very best with your future M9 purchase .... your initial post resonated a bit with me as iam also in a bit of a pickle as what to buy next .... my main hobby is Astronomy and what i have found out over the years is while you can obtain good advice from others ... (im sure some invaluable here) there is actually no substitute for owning the product and trying it yourself for a few of months !! the other thing i found is that "optical quality" is very important (EG using Takahashi Telescopes) ... so i feel we are all on the correct forum with regard to that.

From my own point of view Iam now reconciled to owning/trying a DMR and an M8 ... on separate occasions (i should add)

 

I will now take my time browsing your blog.

Thanks .. Brian

[due163]

Bruce

 

I'd like a M9 also, but thats not feasible for me unfortunately, so the M8U will have to do

 

best of luck!

 

BTW nice shots on your site ,

Robert

[bpalme]

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Kinda sounds like my situation.. I'm probably going to get an M8 and sell it a little later for an M9.

Good luck.

[Julian H]

Bruce.

 

Why don't you go for a good deal on an M8 and sell it once you have saved up the balance? If you buy carefully you will not loose much on the M8 when the time comes to trade up to the M9 [if indeed you decide to do so after all].

 

Good luck, Julian

[colonel]

First,

I want to thank those of you who replied to my original post. I appreciate the advice of current and prior users, and thought that this input would help me clarify my decision. Regarding the selling/trading of gear... I would not "sell the farm" for the M8. I will retain my Canon 7D, 300 f2.8ISL + 1.4x (for wildlife and distant landscapes), a 50 f1.4, and 15mm fisheye. In addition, my wife uses a 40D, 17-55 f2.8, 100-400L, and e-p1. However, to make this happen, I'd need to use my 5DII and a lesser used optic like my 100 macro to defray the buy in cost.

It is likely that the M8 would be used as a landscape camera... shot from a tripod. In contrast to my wildlife work, landscapes are all about the process. I tend to work slowly and thoughtfully as I wait for the right light and compositional elements to gel. In addition, I've begun to explore cultural photography during my travels. Recent trips to Africa, Europe, and Central America have included a more human twist to my imagery,... it is here that I thought that a Leica would be the best tool for this type of work.

 

Finally, thanks to those of you who visited my blog, and thank you "geotrupede" for your very kind comments. Photography is my passion and my release... and this blog is one way that I can share the source of my vision... for those who are interested in seeing my work, you can visit the blog ( The Way We See It ) or web gallery ( http://www.btleventhal.com ).

 

Today I visit my local shop and will make my final decision!

cheers,

bruce

 

I would caution taking around, or even having, too much gear. To get the most out of leica you need to adopt it as your main camera. When I need telephoto I usually don't take the leica at all.

When I take the leica, I do so as my main camera, and trust it for all the pictures of the session. It primeval force is to make you understand the aperture and focus of every picture and thus improve ones photography. Then, and only then, do leicas wonderful lenses kick in.

 

The m8 is a great tool for this. Saying you need the ff sensor just for resolution smacks a bit of the canon/nikon race which misses the point of the leica m series.

[BLeventhal]

The m8 is a great tool for this. Saying you need the ff sensor just for resolution smacks a bit of the canon/nikon race which misses the point of the leica m series.

 

Thank you for your thoughts here Colonel, as they draw a line directly towards my own inexperience with tools like rangefinder cameras... unlike a prior post, I would not call this "biting criticism," but an accurate statement that exposes my own reservations and fears.

 

I cut my teeth on medium format and 35mm bodies, and while I have dappled w/ a 4x5 Field Camera and Leica CL, I have never made a thorough commitment to either. My desire to hold off on the M8 reflects my lack of desire to sell my 5DII... this body plays an important role in my work-flow and its capabilities as an image making tool should not be undervalued. Unfortunately, it is not a tool that inspires vision and creativity, as it sits squarely in the mainstream of photographic technology.

 

Now for the brass tacks... I'd like to plunk $2200 or $7000 on a camera today... I'd also love to add another $3700 for lenses (the 35mm and 75mm summarits would fit my shooting perspective nicely). On the the lowest end... and M8 + 2 lenses... I'm looking at a $6000 investment. Now, I don't object to spending this type of money on the one thing that inspires passion for me, but I can't justify selling my current gear at this point... maybe in the future but not today.

 

Finally, while I agree that I could begin to immerse myself into the rangefinder world with either the M8 or M9, you have to admit that the M9 reflects a maturation of the digital M-system. There are many fewer reports on "bugs," and the body lacks the need to add the IR/cut filter to lenses... at this point, if I am going to make the jump into a Leica system, I'm going in all the way... I just have to be able to afford it.

 

One last point (really )... the desire for the M9 is not a full-frame and hi-res issue for me... though I will say that the resolution is quite impressive... if Leica made a 6MP rangefinder w/ interchangeable lenses (Like the R-D1) and it lacked the need for filtration and had a high battery capacity, I'd be all over it... I can't afford to buy 2 M-digital cameras, and I fear that too many M8's go in for servicing too often... at least that is what I see from browsing months of threads here. I want it... but I can be patient too.

 

regards,

bruce

[colonel]

My desire to hold off on the M8 reflects my lack of desire to sell my 5DII... .

 

can't afford to buy 2 M-digital cameras, and I fear that too many M8's go in for servicing too often... at least that is what I see from browsing months of threads here. I want it... but I can be patient too.

 

regards,

bruce

 

I would say my experience of the M8 is complete reliability. People who post in forums tend to mostly be when there is a problem. However I can not speak for the universe of users. Also I don't use them for pro usage. If I did I would also get two or take a backup.

 

The M9 is not much different at all. The M8 is on version 5 of its software, and the IR/UV filter is no issue at + you have free lens protection thrown in.

 

I used to have a 5Dii. this is a wonderful camera. I can understand you not wanting to give it up. The M8/M9 have no where near the performance at ISO above 400. So if you need indoors low light, for example, then you will continue to need the 5Dii

 

I will get the M9 2nd hand a few years after the M9.2 comes out. I intend to have a £2,500-£1,500 new camera cost less I still expect my M8 to sell for at least £1,000-£1,699 at that time.

[phancj]

I too have been toying with an M8 purchase

In my case I would go from an X1

(I also have a lot of digital kit)

I looked at a couple of bodies on Friday and tried them out.

For me the crop factor is to much of an issue,

For what I do the X1 is actually a better bet, yep I know it's not an M but maybe worth a look ?

In terms of toughness mine took a soaking recently with no probs

I'm like you in the sense I have to spend wisely

The combination of digital SLR and the X1 seems my best option.

 

Bruce,

 

I am with Peter here. At least give the X1 a try.

 

The AF is slow but very accurate. For landscapes absolutely no problem. For general photography outside of sports or kids running around in dim room the X1 delivers consistently.

 

What you may find liberating (that is, if you think the 35mm lens works for what you take) is the extreme portability. it's the big reason why I always carry the X1 on travel trips.

 

Outside of what it does my DSLR will fill in the gaps, e.g. macro or tele but that realm is not the forte of the Ms too.

 

In fact, you may find WB and colors on the X1 to be more accurate than the M8 at least thats what I experienced.

 

I find that using the X1 is like using a toy camera in the sense that one may look not too "pro" and even amateurish but if you can see past that (I do not bother what others think anyway) you will be able to take shots of extremely high quality.

 

CJ

[andybarton]

I still expect my M8 to sell for at least £1,000-£1,699 at that time.

 

M8s don't sell for £1,700 now. I would expect them to settle around the lower end of your expectation, but the upper end is too ambitious.

[colonel]

M8s don't sell for £1,700 now. I would expect them to settle around the lower end of your expectation, but the upper end is too ambitious.

 

sorry to disagree

I have looked around for ages

Good quality ones are £1,599 to £1,699

With inflation this will be fairly stable

[colonel]

At least give the X1 a try

 

struggling to understand what the X1 has to do with a discussion on the M series, which is an interchangeable lens rangefinder.

 

if you want something like the X1 you then could throw in a whole lot of better cameras, like the NEX5 or X100, etc.

 

Might be that someone just wants to buy a Leica, any Leica .....

[andybarton]

Used electronic products drop in price until a base line is met. Inflation has little to do with the used electronic goods market.

 

As more and more M9s and M8.2s come onto the used market, so the price of M8s will fall. My local dealer has an E+ M8 for £1500 this week and ffordes have two at less than £1700.

 

In the past, film M cameras have settled at a price and then tend to slowly creep back up again later, but they do not have the potential for such expensive repairs as digital ones, nor does their technology go out of date.

 

I believe that the M8 has yet to reach its "base" - probably around £1200. I will be pleased to be proven wrong, but if you are relying on achieving £1700 for your M8 body in a few years time (when it will be 5+ years old) and when there will be more used cameras in the market, I fear that you may be disappointed.

[phancj]

Funny colonel you find it strange, it is an open forum here and maybe other options can work for the OP. Since he will be at the store trying there isnt any harm spending a little time trying another camera, is there? Who knows, it may yield surprising results.

[jaapv]

I'm not sure, Andy. The DMR dropped to close to 2250 Euro and has now inched up to about 3000. The Digilux2 seems to follow a similar pattern.

[colonel]

Used electronic products drop in price until a base line is met. Inflation has little to do with the used electronic goods market.

 

As more and more M9s and M8.2s come onto the used market, so the price of M8s will fall. My local dealer has an E+ M8 for £1500 this week and ffordes have two at less than £1700.

 

In the past, film M cameras have settled at a price and then tend to slowly creep back up again later, but they do not have the potential for such expensive repairs as digital ones, nor does their technology go out of date.

 

I believe that the M8 has yet to reach its "base" - probably around £1200. I will be pleased to be proven wrong, but if you are relying on achieving £1700 for your M8 body in a few years time (when it will be 5+ years old) and when there will be more used cameras in the market, I fear that you may be disappointed.

 

you misread my post:

 

"expect my M8 to sell for at least £1,000-£1,699 at that time."

 

ffordes have two at £1,650 and £1,679. So pretty much £1,699 which they often have as the price

£1,499 tend to have some scratches, without box, etc.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[phancj]

Used electronic products drop in price until a base line is met. Inflation has little to do with the used electronic goods market.

 

As more and more M9s and M8.2s come onto the used market, so the price of M8s will fall. My local dealer has an E+ M8 for £1500 this week and ffordes have two at less than £1700.

 

In the past, film M cameras have settled at a price and then tend to slowly creep back up again later, but they do not have the potential for such expensive repairs as digital ones, nor does their technology go out of date.

 

I believe that the M8 has yet to reach its "base" - probably around £1200. I will be pleased to be proven wrong, but if you are relying on achieving £1700 for your M8 body in a few years time (when it will be 5+ years old) and when there will be more used cameras in the market, I fear that you may be disappointed.

 

YEs, I believe too the M8 will see a drastic fall in prices not too long from now simply because all sensors have a specific lifespan and there is apparently no foolproof way to determine actual number of actuations (or is there?) so it is really a gamble. Better off with an M8.2 better still M9 if buying used.

 

Here the number of used M8s in circulation have also shrunk, simply because at a certain low price point no one is happy to part with an M8 so they feel more comfortable keeping it instead.