Caterman Posted March 16, 2011 Share #1 Posted March 16, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) My heart yearns for a second hand M8 My head is worried about all the problems I read regarding reliability and the need for constant fettling by Solms, which sounds costly. eg sensor redline, circuit board swaps and frequent CLA's The M8 would be a replacement for a GF1 (possibly keep GF1:rolleyes:) and to complement M7 and D700 Should I go with my heart or my head? Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 16, 2011 Posted March 16, 2011 Hi Caterman, Take a look here M8 - Reassurance Required. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted March 16, 2011 Share #2 Posted March 16, 2011 If your wallet stretches that far, I think that you should consider an M9 instead of an M8. Both your other cameras are full frame and to go back to a crop would seem like a retrograde step to me - especially from the M7's point of view. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 16, 2011 Share #3 Posted March 16, 2011 What Andy said - and frequent CLAs:confused: I cannot recall any being discussed here on the forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
colonel Posted March 16, 2011 Share #4 Posted March 16, 2011 My heart yearns for a second hand M8My head is worried about all the problems I read regarding reliability and the need for constant fettling by Solms, which sounds costly. eg sensor redline, circuit board swaps and frequent CLA's The M8 would be a replacement for a GF1 (possibly keep GF1:rolleyes:) and to complement M7 and D700 Should I go with my heart or my head? Dave I would hold a different view from the above Firstly the M8 is broadly reliable but you tend to hear on forums about complaints. If you buy from a respected second hand dealer you should get at least a 6 months guarantee and normally a weeks approval, which should be fine. I moved from a 5Dii to a M8. I strongly believe the premium of the M9 is not worth it unless you are rich enough not to notice it or have a professional reason to need 1 stop extra sensitivity or the slightly wider angle. In comparison to the 5Dii both the M8 and M9 are not much different in terms of ISO performance (M8 - 663, M9 - 884, 5Dii - 1,815). I would prefer FF, but frankly 1.3x is perfectly managable and nice to use. In Canon terms its APS-H format and is used by many professionals. I also have a Sony NEX5 and 18-200mm as an long-zoom camera (its APS-C and yes, it takes perfectly good ISO 3200 pictures). There is some intellectual snobbery against the M8, not from the esteemed members of this forum that have posted above, but from many folk as it was Leica's first digital M and got the stick for Leica siding with the digital devil - these people had calmed down by the M9. this includes Leica film lovers like Ken Rockwell who got his traditionalist anger out at the M8 but used the M9 to admit that maybe a digital Leica is a good thing (although I agree with Ken on many counts, he is also wrong about many things, including the new summarits). I have the M8 with a Leica 50mm and a Leica 28mm lens (soon to get a 90mm). The pictures I get are stunning. For ISO 160 and 320 I get better contrast and pp latitude then the 5Dii, so I need to work with large apertures, which isn't a problem. this is mostly from the Leica glass but shows the M8 can deliver the advantages. After the M9.2 comes out the second hand price of the M9 will gradually drop to that of the M8.2 currently, after a few years, which is when I will trade up for a M9. I expect not to loose that much on my M8 body if I keep in good condition. Note that the M9.2 is likely to have a higher resolution back screen, higher pixel count, better ISO sensitivity and better metering. So the same ol' arguments will fly around vis-a-vis the M9 when that comes out. What is far more relevant is whether you want to think more about your pictures and work in the Leica way. That means aperture priority only and manual focus. Manual focus was the thing I was more worried about but I have ended up liking it alot, especially for most landscapes where you just whack it on infinity. The main thing is that as a platform for Leica glass the M8 is excellent and is also so beautiful its just a pleasure to use. Finally its much lighter then my 5Dii and 50mm f1.2 which means I take it everywhere. They say the best picture is from the camera you have with you at the time! best rgds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted March 16, 2011 Share #5 Posted March 16, 2011 The M8 had its teething problems, no question. But those are behind us. Pity there's not an archived copy of the LUF from the first year and a half of the M8's existence. I would guess there were at least 10-20 times as many ugly occurrences reported then as currently on both M8 and M9 together. If I could afford it, I'd go M9. But my M8 is a stellar performer (after a couple trips to Allendale in its first year and a half), and I would recommend it to anyone. Any M8 out there is likely to have had all necessary tweaks performed. If not, and if the camera goes in for repair, Leica will bring it up to current standard automatically. Out of your pocket, of course, but then you'll have a trouble-free camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 16, 2011 Share #6 Posted March 16, 2011 LUF has been around for nearly 10 years in one form or another. What dates do you need to go back to? No earlier than Sept 2006, surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted March 16, 2011 Share #7 Posted March 16, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks, Andy. Would it be possible to resurrect the state of the forum for a given date, just for display? Say, twelve months after introduction of M8; maybe just, say, the 25 top pages of the "M8 forum," listing the thread titles, though maybe with all links disabled? My feeling is that there were a lot more complaints threads then than now, but I could be proved wrong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasticman Posted March 16, 2011 Share #8 Posted March 16, 2011 I was thinking the other day that if anything went wrong with my M8 (knock on wood) I'd much rather buy another one than an M9. I really like the color and the rendering of the M8, and I use the different field-of-view to my advantage - seeing the way the lenses behave slightly differently on film and digital means I feel I have twice as many choices to work with. I must say, I've never quite understood people who say that all the cameras one owns need to have the same fov. This would only make sense to me if one was using multiple cameras at the same time - all with the same focal length. In that extremely unlikely case I'd understand that it might be problematic to mentally switch between different views of a scene - but how many people do that? For me, I simply look through the viewfinder and accept the framelines that are presented to me, and work with that. There's no massive problem changing from film to digital, 35mm to slightly-smaller-than-35mm. I really, really wish Leica had had the resources to keep making the M8 alongside the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 16, 2011 Share #9 Posted March 16, 2011 ...There's no massive problem changing from film to digital, 35mm to slightly-smaller-than-35mm... And no problem to switch from FF to APS-C either. Between one €5.5K M9 with color shift problems and one €2.5K M8.2 with IR-cut filters i would probably choose the latter and wait for the M10 (or not). Now i don't own either cameras so i'm not the most qualified to comment on this point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted March 16, 2011 Share #10 Posted March 16, 2011 An M8 is a very good camera for its secondhand price and an M9 is just a hair better (mostly not noticeable in print) for 3* more money. THE most important arguments for me to pay that price for an M9 are selective focus, DOF, and compactness: for a ~ 35mm angle Summicron you need an expensive and somewhat bulky 28 on the M8, whereas on the M9 you have the small and less expensive 35 S'crons. I couldn't find my way with a 35 on an M8, but I liked my 50 on it (portrait). The Elmarit 24 on an M9 is better than an 18/3.4 on an M8. So it depends on what kind of work and lenses you prefer to use. An M is, after all, a compact (street) camera, and that will determine its usage, especially if you own a D700 already Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 16, 2011 Share #11 Posted March 16, 2011 Thanks, Andy. Would it be possible to resurrect the state of the forum for a given date, just for display? The forum search function seems to go back only 500 threads or posts. I have asked Andreas whether we can have the Google function restored. That would search right back to the beginning of time - in LUF terms - into the old "Leica-owned" forum. I joined that in 2002 and found pretty much my first post there. In one of the recent changes, the Google function was lost. Edit: The google search box on the expanded forum front page does search the old forum. I have just found my post Nr 4, from September 2002 Try doing a search for your M8 query there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 16, 2011 Share #12 Posted March 16, 2011 Weren't you "Tess" then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 16, 2011 Share #13 Posted March 16, 2011 I was. What a very good memory you have "Tess Tessier" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 16, 2011 Share #14 Posted March 16, 2011 Was before your M2 no? Before my Epsons at least. We had LC5 vs D1 debates then. No raw files for us, just 'poor man's raw'. And forget about 200 iso. Too noisy by far. Newbies cannot understand with their chimping cams supposed to shoot clean sharpness in the dark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted March 16, 2011 Share #15 Posted March 16, 2011 Thanks, Andy. I hadn't realized the Quickfinder box would reach back that far. I didn't expect there would be a possibility to do what I mentioned, and I'm sure it wouldn't be of enough general importance to bother writing such a feature. Ah, well. My contention will just have to stand unchallenged. As is said: "97% of all statistics are made up on the spot." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted March 16, 2011 Share #16 Posted March 16, 2011 Was before your M2 no? Before my Epsons at least. We had LC5 vs D1 debates then. No raw files for us, just 'poor man's raw'. And forget about 200 iso. Too noisy by far. Newbies cannot understand with their chimping cams supposed to shoot clean sharpness in the dark. Yes. About 6 months before the M2. I tried to buy a Digilux 1, but they were just unavailable in the market when I needed a new camera. Happy days Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 17, 2011 Share #17 Posted March 17, 2011 For the OP...if you're worried about early issues, buy a nice used M8.2. I bought a second used one to accompany the one I bought new. Zero problems with either, and I echo plasticman's thoughts about the camera. For me, the filters and crop are a non-issue, even after using film Ms for decades. And, I could have bought a couple of M9s instead. No GAS, no need, at my print sizes. Plus, you can probably get back most or all of your money on a good used M8 or M8.2 if you don't get along with it. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 17, 2011 Share #18 Posted March 17, 2011 Happy days Yes, I got into Leica cameras around that time (2002). Bought a brand new (grey import) M6TTL from a (now defunct) US dealer for £950. 50 Summicron for £600 and 35/F2 ASPH for £795 - both new with passport warranty from well known UK dealers. Bought my Noctilux a couple of years later for £1800 (what seemed then like a silly amount to spend on a lens). Buying into Leica now seems like a different proposition and (judging by the forum) seems to attract a different crowd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted March 17, 2011 Share #19 Posted March 17, 2011 We had famous trolls as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
epand56 Posted March 17, 2011 Share #20 Posted March 17, 2011 Dave, in three years of use, my M8 went to Solms just une time in the beginning for vertical re-alignement (a problem the camera had when new). Since then I didn't have a single problem with it (well, except for having to find the money for the lenses ) I suppose that as any electronic appliance, you have to be lucky with the sample you buy. But believe me, it is a true monster It made me discover the REAL pleasure of photography. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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