jim sink Posted February 17, 2011 Share #1 Posted February 17, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Does anyone know if leica makes a perspective control lens for the M cameras or if I can use the Canon 17mm Tilt Shift lens with an adapter on a M camera ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 17, 2011 Posted February 17, 2011 Hi jim sink, Take a look here Perspective control lens for M cameras. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest nafpie Posted February 17, 2011 Share #2 Posted February 17, 2011 Does anyone know if leica makes a perspective control lens for the M cameras or if I can use the Canon 17mm Tilt Shift lens with an adapter on a M camera ? No and no. It doesn't make sense to use a perspective control lens with a rangefinder camera. If you think deep about the construction of the Leica M finder, even your questions doesn't make sense. Use a SLR instead. Stefan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian tyler Posted February 17, 2011 Share #3 Posted February 17, 2011 Does anyone know if leica makes a perspective control lens for the M cameras or if I can use the Canon 17mm Tilt Shift lens with an adapter on a M camera ? there is a 3rd party device, 1. called photoshop. 2. a tall ladder! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted February 17, 2011 Share #4 Posted February 17, 2011 That was with a film M: with an M9 and its LCD it'll be easier. Using the LCD as a supplementary viewfinder is one of the great benefits of digital That would mean shooting and chimping however many number of times until you think you've got it right, as the M9 only displays an image once it's been taken, there's no live view. Anyway, the OP hasn't mentioned the M9, so if he's using a film M then he's really taking pot luck as to how his results will turn out. Yes, you can buy an adaptor and fit a perspective control lens intended for an SLR, to your Leica M, but as above, just use the SLR, it's the much better tool for the job. You could also use a Leica M to hammer nails with or to open beer bottles, but again, there's better tools for those jobs too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted February 17, 2011 Share #5 Posted February 17, 2011 I suppose we should try to avoid statting the bleeding obvious but the original question leaves it wide open. One of my enjoyments is architectural stuff, and in professional terms I always used a technical camera, but to 'play' in retirement I have a PC Nikkor 35, usually used of course on a Nikon, but it should be possible to use it on an M with adaptor, focus is no great problem, you can use an external rangefinder if estimation is not your forte (or a tape measure if poss) and the photos will likely be at small aperture. Likewise vertical framing could be estimated and horizontal is no problem. Its all a bit academic now really though, Photoshop will sort out most things (although NOT all) and you can use the M lenses, which are quite a lot better, and nobody made a 15 or even 21 PC lens as far as I know. Apparently there was a bellows with movements for Micro 4/3 on view at a recent photo show, to use Nikon lenses, so my Nikon fit 17 might get used on the Panasonic for fun one day, as someone else said, easy with live view, better than looking at an upside down image on a Sinar Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
masjah Posted February 17, 2011 Share #6 Posted February 17, 2011 That would mean shooting and chimping however many number of times until you think you've got it right, as the M9 only displays an image once it's been taken, there's no live view. Anyway, the OP hasn't mentioned the M9, so if he's using a film M then he's really taking pot luck as to how his results will turn out. Yes, you can buy an adaptor and fit a perspective control lens intended for an SLR, to your Leica M, but as above, just use the SLR, it's the much better tool for the job. You could also use a Leica M to hammer nails with or to open beer bottles, but again, there's better tools for those jobs too! I entirely agree. With an R-M adapter you could, for example, use a Leica PC Super Angulon 28/2.8, but why? You could get a cheap user R film body and use it directly, or an adapter for Canon, or a Leitax mount for Nikon. I can think of no stronger example of where an SLR is the right tool for the job. If you want to see what the PC Super Angulon can do, do a forum search under my user name for "Salisbury Cathedral". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted February 17, 2011 Share #7 Posted February 17, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Leica users are a conservative bunch and don't like to think outside the box! I'm not sure this is true - I think it's more that many Leica users seem to have plenty of spare cash and like to spend money on accumulating stuff. I have a certain amount of time for old codgers like Roger Hicks but I'm not sure it makes an awful lot of sense trying to use a PC lens with a film M body. By the time you've bought the correct adaptor for your PC lens and focus/shift-bracketed your way through lots of film, you may as well just buy a cheap SLR film body to go with the lens. Even a top of the line film body like a Nikon F5 or Canon 1V can be bought for £400 nowadays. With digital the cost of the extra body can be substantial so it makes more sense being a bit more Heath Robinson. That said, there might be problems using an M9 for this task: 1) the screen is not ideal for making fine judgements about shift. Overlaying a grid of some sort will help but the shoot, have a look, squint, fiddle about, shoot again method of finding the right amount of shift could get tedious rather quickly. 2) red shift. It is true that an SLR lens will sit further forward of the sensor than an M lens and may mitigate the oblique light ray problem, but I suspect that shifting a lens will introduce some annoying asymmetrical red and green colour shifts. Edit. John was a bit quicker to the reply button than I was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nafpie Posted February 17, 2011 Share #8 Posted February 17, 2011 ... Leica users are a conservative bunch and don't like to think outside the box! [...] The author Roger Hicks has used a Nikon 35 mm shift lens on his Leica M cameras for years. You have to guess the focus as there's no coupling between SLR lenses and the Leica M. Roger said that he found guessing the focus and shift effect straightforward. ... If this is the view inside the box, I'll prefer to stay outside. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 17, 2011 Share #9 Posted February 17, 2011 Can't use the Canon TS-E lenses very effectively because there would be no way to set the aperture (the Canon lenses depend on the EOS camera body for aperture control). Leica doesn't make PC lenses for the M bodies because it is not an intelligent use of the design. Like using a pair of pliers to hammer in a nail - it CAN be done, but if you see someone doing it, you can assume their real problem is not a loose nail, but a loose screw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest nafpie Posted February 17, 2011 Share #10 Posted February 17, 2011 ...if you see someone doing it, you can assume their real problem is not a loose nail, but a loose screw. Excellent! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 17, 2011 Share #11 Posted February 17, 2011 I have used a Nikon shift lens on the M9. Worked perfectly, but obviously needed scale focussing. Actually, the quality loss at max shift was less than on the D300. I cannot explain that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted February 17, 2011 Share #12 Posted February 17, 2011 Why bother when you can get a used film body for peanuts today. SLR or view cameras are for that work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted February 17, 2011 Share #13 Posted February 17, 2011 That's right, I just happened to run into a family member who had the lens and adapter and tried out a few shots for fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrian tyler Posted February 17, 2011 Share #14 Posted February 17, 2011 i've been using view cameras and dslr's with pc lenses for years, and leica m's too, the geneal consensus above that view cameras and dslrs with pc lenses are the best way to go are correct in my view. however, you can use a leica m very carefully and obtain nice results, my comment about the ladder above was half joking, in urban situations finding a raised perspective will give you the results you are looking for, it is a question of tailoring your work to suit the equipments limitations. Hans Aarsmans series "streets of amsterdam" is a good example. a few here too: Adrian Tyler - Crisis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdtaylor Posted February 17, 2011 Share #15 Posted February 17, 2011 I used to have Nikkor PC lenses, but I found between Photoshop, the high image quality of the Leica lenses, and careful viewpoint placement, I can achieve satisfactory results with my Leica equipment. And my poor back is better for the effort! I went with the Ms for a reason- traveling to sites was becoming to burdensome, and I often had to carry other equipment besides photo equipment. I have even tried overlapping images (guess this would be a narrow panoramic, not sure of the proper term) shots with a longer lens, arranged vertically and horizontally, giving me a high level of detail (off a pano rig). I make sure the overall composition is level to procure the cleanest perspective, then crop and alter as need in PP. While it doesn't work in all situations, and not as simple as a T/S, I have been surprised how easy it is. And yes, a ladder can be most useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikkor AIS Posted February 17, 2011 Share #16 Posted February 17, 2011 I often use the Nikkor 45 2.8 ED PC-E on my Nikon D3/F3T. If you want to get into PC photography it would be much easier and far supperior to just get a Nikon D3 or 5D2 for Canon. Or even the go all out and get a 4X5. I really love the M system but if you want to explore adjusting the plane of focus and or correcting perspective, the M system is the wrong platform. Getting the exact plane of focus is tricky enough with being able to look through the veiw finder, I can't image it being possible to get consistent results without being able to see through the veiw finder. You mentioned the 17 mm Canon PC. lens which is very cool lens. I actually got to check it out in a camera store and was very impressed with what could be done. Nikkor 45 2.8 ED PC-E on Nikon D3 Gregory Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 17, 2011 Share #17 Posted February 17, 2011 BTW: Don't get me wrong. There is nothing weird about doing perspective-correction work shooting with an M9 or other rangefinder. It's just that a PC lens is not the best way to do it. All of the shots on this page are M8/M9 shots - most involve some perspective-correction, done in Photoshop. Sometimes combined with stitching. andypiper - PORTFOLIOS - ARCHITECTURE The last shot in the set (Museum Lofts) was taken from an "impossible" location. To actually photograph this building as shown in its entirety would have require pulling down a very large museum wing. Even a Canon 17 (or 4x5 with 43mm Super-Angulon) couldn't have taken in the whole structure. (The architect was VERY impressed!) Stitched from about 9 hand-held vertical shots with the M9 and a 35 'cron, each shot individually corrected for distortion before stitching. Total image is about 13,000 pixels long. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdtaylor Posted February 17, 2011 Share #18 Posted February 17, 2011 Very nice work, Andy. Being an architect, I see why he was impressed. Thanks for sharing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted February 18, 2011 Share #19 Posted February 18, 2011 Andy, I enjoyed your Gallery very much. Some of the shots are very wide (the photograph in the church for example). Which lens do you use for this and how do you feel about it's performance in distortion, resolution and lumination? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted February 18, 2011 Share #20 Posted February 18, 2011 The church shot was made with an M8 and the Voigtlander 15mm (20mm equivalent). A great little lens as regards resolution, distortion and vignetting (at least with the M8 crop). The square B&W shot of the Visitors' Center was made with the same lens on an M9. Yes, wide is important for architecture, both for drama and impact, and also because shooting space is often cramped by surrounding buildings (as I mentioned in previous post) or internal walls. Although I've also used up to a 90mm on both the M8 (the trio of Boston buildings) and M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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