lct Posted January 23, 2011 Share #41 Posted January 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...you'd be requiring your line to be very patient... Same for Ferrari, Van Cleef, Breguet and others. They are not selling hotdogs though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Hi lct, Take a look here What is wrong with Leica?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pop Posted January 23, 2011 Share #42 Posted January 23, 2011 Selling everything you can make is not the ideal point of profitability that people on here seem to imagine. If you had a hotdog stand .. I don't know if anyone thinks it's the ideal point of profitability. It might be the only one which Leica have at their disposal. That's what they seem to say, anyway. I fail to see how the hotdog stand example contributes anything useful at all to the discussion at hand. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted January 23, 2011 Share #43 Posted January 23, 2011 I fail to see how the hotdog stand example contributes anything useful at all to the discussion at hand. Not entirely sure that little snipe adds a lot either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scsambrook Posted January 23, 2011 Share #44 Posted January 23, 2011 The hotdog stand analogy seems pretty clear to me . . . let's refrain from taking pot shots at each other ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 23, 2011 Share #45 Posted January 23, 2011 The hotdog stand analogy seems pretty clear to me . . . It's pretty clear, but it's also a fundamentally flawed analogy since selling hot dogs requires little training, but assembling a lens is a bit more complicated. If you're going to use a food analogy, then the world of restaurant food would be better. The chef has years of training, and there can be a waiting list for a table. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacarape Posted January 23, 2011 Share #46 Posted January 23, 2011 The thread seems like a silly exercise, so I'll bite. The hot dog analogy is flawed. Hot cakes are a more applicable analogy. Five years ago Leica lenses sold like hot cakes. They lost money on every lens but made it up in volume. I have to think Leica having brought themselves back from the brink is now being managed now by a steady hand. A better thread would be "What's Wrong With Kodak". Let's not go there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted January 23, 2011 Share #47 Posted January 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) If you're going to use a food analogy, then the world of restaurant food would be better. The chef has years of training, and there can be a waiting list for a table. Agreed, but then there comes a time to hire some sous-chefs, or move to bigger premises..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 23, 2011 Share #48 Posted January 23, 2011 Agreed, but then there comes a time to hire some sous-chefs, or move to bigger premises..... And that's when the trouble starts and they lose the hands on touch that made their reputation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted January 23, 2011 Share #49 Posted January 23, 2011 So, by that logic, Leica can never expand? Or you think should not, in case it 'spoils' them? I have to say that I'm somewhat surprised by the enthusiasm with which Leica's inability to maintain supply is being defended. I'm pleased Leica seem to be doing well, but I don't see how that's mutually exclusive with being able to maintain a reasonable supply of their lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
giordano Posted January 23, 2011 Share #50 Posted January 23, 2011 Same for Ferrari, Van Cleef, Breguet and others. They are not selling hotdogs though. This prompts (again) the question: how much is Leica in the business of making tools for photographers, and how much is it in the luxury goods business? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 23, 2011 Share #51 Posted January 23, 2011 OK, if the hot dog stand is so dear to you.Part one simply says that the stand is producing at capacity and that demand exceeds capacity. That's just the premise and just says in other words what everyone already agrees about. It also implies that you could produce more profit by selling more hot dogs. That also has already been agreed on.Part two reads:One thing for certain, you'd not be making the amount of money you could be, if you hired a second guy to make the hot dogs.. Let's consider the other bloke hired. Now what?For starter, he needs to be taught how to make the hot dogs your way. While you teach him, your throughput sinks from one every five minutes to much less. Profit goes down, not up.Once he's got the hang of it, he makes hot dogs at a similar rate you used to make them. Since there now are two of you, you get into each other's way and use pans and implements at the same time. Net throughput still below what it used to be. Profit is still lower.That's as far as the example went. To take it a tiny bit farther:You decide to increase the shack's size and to buy another set of tools. Since you can't buy on credit that would require some cash. You just happen to be out of cash. You've used it all to build and furnish your hot dog stand. Therefore, you keep on operating at your current capacity until you have saved enough to afford the carpenter, a pan and some other implements.You now could operate at much increased capacity. That's the moment to find out out that you already had cornered the total supply of the material out of which the sausage skin is made and which gives your hot dogs the competitive edge over all other hot dogs in town. There are no more skins to be had than you're already buying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted January 23, 2011 Share #52 Posted January 23, 2011 I have to say that I'm somewhat surprised by the enthusiasm with which Leica's inability to maintain supply is being defended. People are just pointing out that it's a little more complicated than it might appear at first sight. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted January 23, 2011 Share #53 Posted January 23, 2011 That's the moment to find out out that you already had cornered the total supply of the material out of which the sausage skin is made and which gives your hot dogs the competitive edge over all other hot dogs in town. There are no more skins to be had than you're already buying. And that's the moment you realise you should have done your research a little better before you expanded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted January 23, 2011 Share #54 Posted January 23, 2011 People are just pointing out that it's a little more complicated than it might appear at first sight. Perhaps. But then many things that Leica have accomplished, the M9 not least of them, could easily have been argued as untenable using arguments from this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 23, 2011 Share #55 Posted January 23, 2011 And that's the moment you realise you should have done your research a little better before you expanded. Um, yes. The example of the sausage skin is taken from life. There's one kind of sausage in Switzerland which is favored over all other kinds for Picnics and such. Its skin is made of the small intestine of cows of one particular country. Since cows can not be imported any more from this particular country, it has become very difficult to produce that particular kind of sausage with all the desired and accustomed qualities. The sausage is called "Cervelat" if you would like to check on my research. Leica has repeatedly been heard to say that they could not produce more of some of their lenses than they do now because some of the kinds of glass they need for those lenses were not to be had. Does your research indicate otherwise? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted January 23, 2011 Share #56 Posted January 23, 2011 OK, if the hot dog stand is so dear to you. I would suggest a move to Scandinavia. In my experience, the best hot-dogs in the world are to be found at Statoil petrol stations. I also think that hot-dogs to be found anywhere in Sweden, Norway or Denmark are superior to those which I have sampled in any other country. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted January 23, 2011 Share #57 Posted January 23, 2011 I would suggest a move to Scandinavia I rather suspect you might be right. My son has a job at the hot dog stand at Ikea's. He takes nowhere near five minutes for one hot dog, I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcoombs Posted January 23, 2011 Share #58 Posted January 23, 2011 Gee, given the way this thread is going where is BigSplash when we need him?? Doug Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 23, 2011 Share #59 Posted January 23, 2011 If you're going to use a food analogy, then the world of restaurant food would be better. The chef has years of training, and there can be a waiting list for a table. And when a 3 star restaurant is booked out for weeks and months in advance, why do I hear nobody clamouring for the chef to expand his premises? Anyone who did would earn quite similar reactions than “Lord Fluff” (<chuckle>) did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Fluff Posted January 23, 2011 Share #60 Posted January 23, 2011 Anyone who did would earn quite similar reactions than “Lord Fluff” (<chuckle>) did. Ah laughing at each other's usernames now are we? Tough crowd. The restaurant analogy was not mine. If we were to extend it fully to the current situation though, it would actually be more like - you can get a table, and a starter now, but if you want main course and dessert then you have to put your name on a list and you'll get one when we've made some, not sure when, or maybe you'd like to phone around, or get another meal elsewhere in the meantime? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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