mmradman Posted September 18, 2012 Share #341 Posted September 18, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) I can sense some frustration and disappointment on this thread following release of new M (240). With respect to R lens if anyone expected magic and some sort of aperture control think again. Adapter is only 19mm thick extension tube (registry difference between R and M = 47 – 28 mm) and I would imagine actuation mechanism to drive aperture blades not to mention coupling against focal plane shutter would be some feat. It would also be power demanding and new battery is no different from existing battery in terms of Ah capacity or 1800mAh, so even with CMOS sensor I would imagine battery would drain faster. Live view was only way to provide focusing with non RF coupled lens on M body. We already heard and learned that R cameras were not selling so Leica was left with M line in 24x36mm arena. Anyone still unhappy with either price or technical solution or both there are new APS-C cameras with built in EVFs like Sony NEX6 and Fuji X-E1 that provide R solution without lens surgery. For FF without or with lens surgery there are well documented Ca-Nik-Sony DSLRs options. Personally I am pleased with this development as it puts Leica squarely in control of destiny of R lenses at least for now – this could change of course if Sony takes next step and upgrades RX1 camera to a new level as it was supposed to be from day one – built EVF and interchangeable optics. If some of R lenses appear to be missing from R-M adapter list new M camera want be in the shops for some time and I would imagine we are only scratching the surface for now – in no doubt that more good news and some bad news will emerge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 18, 2012 Posted September 18, 2012 Hi mmradman, Take a look here The R solution - more details. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
pico Posted September 18, 2012 Share #342 Posted September 18, 2012 Did you look at the photos? It may be an opinion, but he is showing you the empirical evidence behind that opinion. What in heavens name can one tell from a computer screen? I was speaking of prints, by the way. Once one scans a film, it is all over. No real-life comparison can be made because it's been taken into the digital realm. That is the fundamental point that people cannot understand. One cannot judge quality by looking at a ruler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 18, 2012 Share #343 Posted September 18, 2012 I heard it's a camera Leica will soon release; not worth it if you ask me. Won't ever happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 18, 2012 Share #344 Posted September 18, 2012 I can sense some frustration and disappointment on this thread following release of new M (240). Aside from not knowing how responsive the system is, the add-on viewfinder seems like a fragile kludge. I'd much rather use a built-in viewfinder that not only is within the weather-sealed outer shell but also is better protected from the inevitable bumps and getting snagged on stuff. I'd feel like I couldn't just shove the camera body into a bag when I want without being careful not to break the viewfinder, or walk through dense brush where an errant twig could knock it off or break it. The rangefinder does nothing for me. Replace it with a built-in EVF and I'd be much more confident of the system's robustness and I'd be saying the camera's a slam-dunk. As it is it's a jack of all trades, master of none. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted September 18, 2012 Share #345 Posted September 18, 2012 What's interesting is the lens EXIF data is also read by the M-R adapter so it must power and interrogate the lens ROM. Bob. That is an intriguing thought but would require some electronic contacts in the body. Perhaps installing the adapter just triggers the menu to come up so that you can select the lens? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted September 18, 2012 Share #346 Posted September 18, 2012 So the "R Solution" is an almost $8,000 (with everything you'll need) M body with live view and available shoe mount viewfinder. You can't even use the ME. Seems to me like a giant "Eff You" to R users, when for 1/4 the cost you can get products from other manufacturers in an SLR form factor, so an OVF, that will take just as good a picture, since you'll still be using Leica lenses. Looks like I'll be ordering that 5D MKII after all. What do you think Leica would charge for a German made camera that was comparable to a 5DII or III? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 18, 2012 Share #347 Posted September 18, 2012 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sounds like the adapter will be passive and the EVF is simply that of the X2 though. Remains to see how we will focus our tele lenses with that. You have focus peaking, which works superbly. The EVF brightens as you stop down the lenses. We have been playing with a short R zoom this afternoon annthe whole thing Is very impressive indeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 18, 2012 Share #348 Posted September 18, 2012 What in heavens name can one tell from a computer screen? I was speaking of prints, by the way. Once one scans a film, it is all over. No real-life comparison can be made because it's been taken into the digital realm. That is the fundamental point that people cannot understand. One cannot judge quality by looking at a ruler. For me, printing is digital and has been since opened my first scan in Photoshop. The degree of precision and control over the final print is several orders of magnitude greater printing digitally and it shows in my prints. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted September 18, 2012 Share #349 Posted September 18, 2012 What in heavens name can one tell from a computer screen? I was speaking of prints, by the way. Once one scans a film, it is all over. No real-life comparison can be made because it's been taken into the digital realm. That is the fundamental point that people cannot understand. One cannot judge quality by looking at a ruler. That is an interesting theory, but how does it work? — "Once one scans a film, it is all over. No real-life comparison can be made because it's been taken into the digital realm." What does the scanning take away, or how does it diminish the image? How is digital less "real-life" than the wet darkroom? As for what one can tell from a computer screen, the images in the article speak for themselves. You only have to look at them to see what can be seen. And he does talk about making prints in the article (says they are equivalent up to 13x19" ... in 2002). Besides, photographers in many fields of photography now do their work on the computer screen as a crucial stage in refining the picture before printing — so obviously they can tell something from looking at it. That is real-life today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted September 18, 2012 Share #350 Posted September 18, 2012 Perhaps installing the adapter just triggers the menu to come up so that you can select the lens? Seems most likely to me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 18, 2012 Share #351 Posted September 18, 2012 The adaptor doesn't talk to the ROM chip in an R lens. The adaptor tells the camera that you are using an R lens and I believe that normally hidden menu items appear to allow you to choose the lens you want manually. There is only so much that they can do with the M code system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larcomb Posted September 18, 2012 Share #352 Posted September 18, 2012 The adaptor doesn't talk to the ROM chip in an R lens. The adaptor tells the camera that you are using an R lens and I believe that normally hidden menu items appear to allow you to choose the lens you want manually. There is only so much that they can do with the M code system. I think the abandonment of the R system was unwise and premature. Sales were poor due to poor marketing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 18, 2012 Share #353 Posted September 18, 2012 You have focus peaking, which works superbly. The EVF brightens as you stop down the lenses. We have been playing with a short R zoom this afternoon annthe whole thingIs very impressive indeed. Do you have focus peaking in the EVF or just on the LCD? That might be interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 18, 2012 Share #354 Posted September 18, 2012 Both IIRC. Definitely in EVF. Works perfectly. Text on a page on the desk was turning red and the red flowed up and down the page as I changed focus. Might even sort out front / back focussing lenses? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 18, 2012 Share #355 Posted September 18, 2012 The adaptor definitely brings up a choice of 20 different R lenses, and the firmware is calibrated for those lenses. (Page 20 of brochure) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 18, 2012 Share #356 Posted September 18, 2012 Both IIRC. Definitely in EVF. Works perfectly. Text on a page on the desk was turning red and the red flowed up and down the page as I changed focus. Might even sort out front / back focussing lenses? Really interesting. Obviously a function of the the camera and not the EVF. I never expected that. That makes the camera considerably more attractive. But still, I would prefer an integrated solution, not a stick-on for long R glass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 18, 2012 Share #357 Posted September 18, 2012 This is the list of R lenses for which codes are included Twitter / m7leicauser: This is the list of R lenses ... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted September 18, 2012 Share #358 Posted September 18, 2012 Looks to be the same as Bob (Gravastar) posted above. Thanks, Andy. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcentsale Posted September 18, 2012 Share #359 Posted September 18, 2012 What do you think Leica would charge for a German made camera that was comparable to a 5DII or III? Five clams. Actual clams. Not money. I own SLR's because I like them. I like the weight, I like the balance. I like the overall feel. I'd expect to pay upwards of what the new M is going for, but I'd pay it for a true SLR. Not the stop-gap half measure Leica gave us. Not for a range finder with live view or an accessory view finder. Since, however, there is no German-made equivalent to the 5D, or the d800 or the A99 I will need to continue to derive my photographic pleasure elsewhere. A camera is just a box, or in this case computer, with a hole in it. The lenses, film/software/firmware and the photographer are what makes the picture. The red dot on the front of the camera does make it pretty though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mooky Posted September 18, 2012 Share #360 Posted September 18, 2012 The adaptor definitely brings up a choice of 20 different R lenses, and the firmware is calibrated for those lenses. (Page 20 of brochure) Andy, I was wondering about older non-coded or non-ROM R glass. Are those lenses useable if they're not? As it would seem just a software ID code and not a physical limitation? For an aside, is this what any of us had in mind for the R solution?...Well, it was fairly obvious when they announced 'live-view' for it (or was rumored) and this is as close as we're ever going to get to the R solution, because it is that. Is it worth $7K ?...by itself as the R solution, maybe not, BUT, if one has both systems - as I do - it's a camera that 'kills two birds with one stone' - other than taking FOREVER. I'll give them a thumbs-up for this effort; assuming it works as advertised. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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