Neil_SI Posted January 14, 2011 Share #21 Posted January 14, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) I bought it some two months ago Niel. At my Leica dealer including 6 months warranty. There seem to be less 8.2s around. I guess because it had a short production time of only a year or so before the M9 came out. Must be the most exclusive M... When I decided to go for an M8 I only wanted the 8.2. Not because it's a better camera than the M8 but I prefered the extra features of the .2. The more silent shutter foremost but also the sapphire glass and the other little things. I also think in black it's the best looking M of them all. If you prefer the 8.2 (features) I would be patient till a good one comes along instead of upgrading an M8 that is probably older too. This route could easily turn out to be more expensive as well. That's a good point and I do prefer the features of the M8.2. You would expect with them being newer and perhaps improved production quality since the M8 was first introduced, that they are less prone to problems. In fact, the M8 that was available for £1.9K had a new sensor fitted, so I presume it went back to Solms for repairs at some point and is now in pristine condition in that sense. I assumed this is why it was priced a lot higher than the other units, but when you reach £1.9K for an M8, what's stopping you from paying £2.5K for an M8.2? I am hoping to pay between £1.3K-£1.5K tops for an M8 in good condition, but I've not made up my mind what I'm willing to pay for an M8.2. I think £2.5K is just a tad too high and was hoping for something nearer the £2K mark. They also had an M9 in stock, but they were not willing to let me handle it, which was a shame, as it looked gorgeous! My current thinking at this time is that if I see an M8 in the price and quality range that I'm looking for, then I will probably go for it, but in the meantime, I will continue simply putting a little money aside every month to improve my options, not only with buying either an M8 or an M8.2, but a lens as well. I was initially going to get a cheap lens to begin with, but really it would only be a temporary measure until I could save enough for some stellar Leica glass. Now when I think about it, I think it might be better to just get everything I actually *want* in one swoop rather than in dribs and drabs, providing I don't come across something that makes sense to buy now. It seems on the surface an expensive experiment, but having had a play for just five minutes, I can tell I will like the experience, but I suppose so many of you know that already having made the jump yourselves and being caught by that Leica thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Hi Neil_SI, Take a look here M8 for beginning rangefinder photography?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
RichardM8 Posted January 14, 2011 Share #22 Posted January 14, 2011 I know what you mean. Just picking up an M and feel it makes you weak in the knees. Unique pieces of precision equipment and they really are a joy to use. But if a (D)RF is new to you - as it is for me - there is a serious learning curve to go through. I never missed so many shots in my life but I never had so much fun either... The prices you mention seem high. My dealer still has 3 or 4 brand new M8s on stock and they sell them for 2500 GBP. These are brand new cameras, in the box with full warranty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesk8752 Posted January 15, 2011 Share #23 Posted January 15, 2011 (snip) I was initially going to get a cheap lens to begin with, but really it would only be a temporary measure until I could save enough for some stellar Leica glass. Now when I think about it, I think it might be better to just get everything I actually *want* in one swoop rather than in dribs and drabs, providing I don't come across something that makes sense to buy now. Neil, while expensive Leica glass is certainly wonderful, you might do just as well starting out with some good used Cosina-Voigtlaender lenses for 1/5 the price. This would allow you to have several decent lenses for the price of one Leica lens, and allow you to evaluate different focal lengths vs. your type of shooting. One drawback is the lack of 6-bit coding, but this can be worked around by hand-coding with a Sharpie pen. You can read opinions on C-V lenses in this forum or in the RangeFinder Forum. For IQ generally as good as Leica glass, the Zeiss ZM lenses offer excellent quality and value, especially used. Most can be found used for well less than $1000. I've picked up almost the complete range in Zeiss glass, and the only issue I have is 6-bit coding. Another option would be to stick with Leica glass, but purchase recent used lenses to gain the benefit of 6-bit coding. For example, a used Summarit-M 2.5/35 is a great lens and is well suited to the M8, with a near-normal FOV. It can be found used for $1200-1300 if you look around for it. I love my copy! If you want something a bit wider I recommend the 2.8/28 Elmarit ASPH, which may be more difficult to find used, but is an outstanding compact lens. Lots of good choices out there... Regards, Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_SI Posted January 17, 2011 Share #24 Posted January 17, 2011 Neil, while expensive Leica glass is certainly wonderful, you might do just as well starting out with some good used Cosina-Voigtlaender lenses for 1/5 the price. This would allow you to have several decent lenses for the price of one Leica lens, and allow you to evaluate different focal lengths vs. your type of shooting. One drawback is the lack of 6-bit coding, but this can be worked around by hand-coding with a Sharpie pen. You can read opinions on C-V lenses in this forum or in the RangeFinder Forum. For IQ generally as good as Leica glass, the Zeiss ZM lenses offer excellent quality and value, especially used. Most can be found used for well less than $1000. I've picked up almost the complete range in Zeiss glass, and the only issue I have is 6-bit coding. Another option would be to stick with Leica glass, but purchase recent used lenses to gain the benefit of 6-bit coding. For example, a used Summarit-M 2.5/35 is a great lens and is well suited to the M8, with a near-normal FOV. It can be found used for $1200-1300 if you look around for it. I love my copy! If you want something a bit wider I recommend the 2.8/28 Elmarit ASPH, which may be more difficult to find used, but is an outstanding compact lens. Lots of good choices out there... Regards, Jim Thanks for the advice Jim, much appreciated. I am definitely keeping the VC and Zeiss lenses in mind and if I see an M8 at the right price in the short-term, it's likely they will have to be the first I look towards anyway. I'm used to shooting on both DX and FX with my Nikon gear, so I'm pretty sure I will go for a 35mm as I like the focal distance on both or perhaps slightly shorter than that, we'll see! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siirilä Posted January 18, 2011 Share #25 Posted January 18, 2011 Note that you must match your IR cut filter sizes to whichever lens(es) you acquire. Depending on what environment you shoot, you may not need them. I would recommend _always_ using the UV/IR filter. The lack of it seems to effect all colors, not just synthetic black fabrics. I have had to throw away images taken without a filter since they seem to be impossible to edit in Lightroom without a "weird" look. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siirilä Posted January 18, 2011 Share #26 Posted January 18, 2011 I think for the second shot, the color's actually pretty accurate (doesn't mean it has to be, of course). Both are straight out of camera. I admit to preferring a bit more blue than is natural, but in this case there was a reason I didn't alter either picture. As we know the M8 has serious problems with white balance. Perhaps thats why the image may not seems as warm-green as you would expect. I am currently measuring the white balance with the Expodisc and it works like a charm. In most situations images change radically when you measure the temperature of the light source before you start shooting. And most importantly the measurement does not effect the DNG generated by the camera. The DNG simply contains the numeral measurement of the white balance for possible later adjustments in post. So, for "Want-a-leica" I would recommend an incident light meter, an Expodisc and UV/IR filters to get the best out of the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2011 Share #27 Posted January 18, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) :confused:The AWB on the M8 is one of the best in the industry since the update middle 2007. Maybe it is time you did something with your firmware.... AWB is uninteresting anyway - a calibrated screen, preferably aRGB capable and a calibrated workflow are a hundred times more important than fiddling around with an expodisk. Only if you are shooting under mixed light, fluorescent/ecolight or doing a product shoot, the inclusion of a grey-white card in the first shot can be of use.. I agree about the UV/IR filters, they are essential, and an incident light meter is a great tool as well - if one knows how to use it. As we know the M8 has serious problems with white balance. Perhaps thats why the image may not seems as warm-green as you would expect. I am currently measuring the white balance with the Expodisc and it works like a charm. In most situations images change radically when you measure the temperature of the light source before you start shooting. And most importantly the measurement does not effect the DNG generated by the camera. The DNG simply contains the numeral measurement of the white balance for possible later adjustments in post. So, for "Want-a-leica" I would recommend an incident light meter, an Expodisc and UV/IR filters to get the best out of the M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikael Siirilä Posted January 18, 2011 Share #28 Posted January 18, 2011 The AWB on the M8 is one of the best in the industry since the update middle 2007. Maybe it is time you did something with your firmware.... Firmware is up to date. The AWB issues is especially apparent now in the winter. Shots are blue with AWB. Ofcourse snowy shots are easy to fix with a click later. the inclusion of a grey-white card in the first shot can be of use.. I totally agree on the importance of a calibrated workflow. I have used the Whibal card but in practice the Expodisk is more convenient and accurate. Especially if you shoot with anything other than ISO 160 on the M8. The grey card gets noisy already in ISO 320+. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 18, 2011 Share #29 Posted January 18, 2011 Well... the complaints are very rare in this respect. It would be interesting to measure the objective color temperature in the snow - it might be more blue in reality than is acceptable esthetically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardM8 Posted January 18, 2011 Share #30 Posted January 18, 2011 Like many here a lot of cameras have been around my neck or in my pocket before the M8. I find the WB very good. Funny to read all the 'advise' in this thread related to the OPs question... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted January 18, 2011 Share #31 Posted January 18, 2011 Well... the complaints are very rare in this respect. It would be interesting to measure the objective color temperature in the snow - it might be more blue in reality than is acceptable esthetically. Indeed snow as well as water is blue ;-) The M8 WB is just as good as the Nikon D3 series IMHO Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted January 18, 2011 Share #32 Posted January 18, 2011 AWB on M8/9 is not reliable in my experience, but sort of OK. Far better I find is to choice a specific parameter from the menu and set it. Either one of the 'out of the box' settings, or dial in a chosen colour temp. I don't use any of the proprietary devices mentioned above as my light environments can vary too much. I would end up shooting more expodisks than subjects. Where the light is more consistent, I can set for that manually anyway. I always prefer to tweak my final colour balance in post. I never accept the colour given by those measuring devises. They are mostly too clinical, whereas I am mostly looking for emotion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wda Posted January 19, 2011 Share #33 Posted January 19, 2011 Hello All, new user and first-time post here.....I would like to try the Rangefinder experience and have been shopping around for a while. I've seen a used M8 going for £1.3K, but it needs its sensor professionally cleaned, so I'm somewhat concerned that the price tag highlights some kind of other problem seeing as the general price range I've seen is more like £1.5K to £1.8K. And then I need a lens and probably some additional batteries and memory cards. If there was a place I could loan one, that would be even better, because I'd like to see whether it's really worth paying a lot more for an M8.2 or even worth upgrading an M8 at a later point should I go for one of those. But I've not had any luck finding places that do rentals of these cameras. Does anybody know anywhere in London that does?...... Neil, welcome! I can't help you regarding dealers in London but I would urge you to seek as young a model as you can find, and one in mint or near mint condition. I have sent you a PM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Gunst Lund Posted January 19, 2011 Share #34 Posted January 19, 2011 ,,,, I would urge you to seek as young a model as you can find, and one in mint or near mint condition,,,, Sign me up for a young model also Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thawley Posted January 19, 2011 Share #35 Posted January 19, 2011 Allow me to chime in with my "first" M8.2 post here on the forum. Having been a strong supporter and advocate for the Leica Digilux 2, I came to terms with the fact that my desire for "this camera with a larger file, better buffer and viewfinder" wasn't going to happen. Especially after watching the progress of the X1. It just wasn't what I wanted. Obviously, I wanted an M9. The reality of it is, my professional work demands big gun, rapid fire, scorched earth Canon dSLRs with really, really long lenses. So allocating funds to cameras that don't generate revenue or pay bills is an urge I have to stare down. The M8 seemed to be getting closer in affordability. In fact, my rationale was to look at the cost of an X1. Suddenly.... the M8 is a very viable option. Yes... you need to add a lens to that, but there are plenty of options including older Leica, Voigtlander or Zeiss. I happened to pick up a 35mm f/2.5 Voigtlander for $300. Guess what, it's a great little starter lens. After some thinking though, (and some urging from my good friend Thorsten Overgaard) I opted for the M8.2 - it seemed to make sense on many levels... including resale. I couldn't be happier. I had a brief fling with an M5 last month... the rangefinder style of shooting had my heart all-a-flutter. The process of dealing with film and getting it into my digital workflow had me in fits. The answer became pretty apparent. So... here I am. Happy. JT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted January 19, 2011 Share #36 Posted January 19, 2011 The AWB issues is especially apparent now in the winter. Shots are blue with AWB. Ofcourse snowy shots are easy to fix with a click later. This problem is very basic. Snow lit by sunlight will be white. Snow in the shadows and thus illuminated by blue sky will be blue. You can manually white balance whatever camera you have for one or the other but not both and neither can any camera. Simples. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunop Posted January 19, 2011 Share #37 Posted January 19, 2011 i'm a rank beginner so i may ask some dumb questions. thanks in advance! how come the LCD on my used m8 stays at 999? and the battery seems to go down rather quickly (at least as indicated by said LCD)? thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 19, 2011 Share #38 Posted January 19, 2011 Because you are using an impossibly largeSD card and probably shooting JPG(youshouldn't) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brunop Posted January 19, 2011 Share #39 Posted January 19, 2011 my card IS 4GB. so that could account for it? what should i set the JPEG/RAW to? and the battery indicator? i charged it up fully last night and the indicator is already going down. do i need a brand new battery? i have no idea how old the current one is since (as i said) i bought it used. thanks again Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil_SI Posted January 19, 2011 Share #40 Posted January 19, 2011 Neil, welcome! I can't help you regarding dealers in London but I would urge you to seek as young a model as you can find, and one in mint or near mint condition. I have sent you a PM. Thank you for the advice, much appreciated. And while I'm at it, thank you to everybody who has provided information. I've been really impressed at how friendly and helpful folks on this forum are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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