Summilux 35mm and focus shift

[Muizen]

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I am certain that the subject of focus shift with the Summilux 35 has been on this forum several times, but I can't find any conclusive information.

I have been offered a really mint Summilux 35mm serial number 3749059 (1996?) but I have read that this lens seems to have a focus shift problem which apparently was the reason for the recent replacement?

I wonder whether this "focus shift" really is a serious problem because this lens has been on the market for over 16 years from 1994 till the middle of this year? Nobody would buy an expensive lens with a serious problem.

I hope that I will find an answer on this forum whether or not to purchase this 35mm Summilux.

Thanks on beforehand!

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[Voigt]

GREAT LENS - When I purchased my 35 Lux Asph I, I noticed that it wasn't focusing properly, so I sent it into Leica requesting that it be calibrated so that it would be at its sharpest at F1.4 (wide open). With the focus shift problem that it was reputed to have, I expected that it would be returned with that inherent trait still visible. And so it was. Even after it returned from Leica, the trait was definitely there... but now, after being properly adjusted by the Leica techs, it was very manageable.

At F2.8, f4, f5.6 and even f8 one merely has to turn the focusing ring ever so slightly (a tweek) so that the lens is made to focus in front of the intended subject. I find the size of the "tweek" to be the same for all F-stops and at all distances. And also have found that the focus at infinity improves with such "tweeking."

How good is this lens? If you learn to make this adjustment, it will probably be your best performing Leica lens. How difficult is it to learn to tweek? I found it rather easy. With the "tweeking", mine has center resolution that is slightly better than that of the new 50mm Lux Asph... at every aperture.

If you want the best and are willing to work for it, then this lens is superb.

I've been taking pictures since 1965 and own ten modern Leica lenses. This one's my best.

[Shade]

Agree with Voigt, the focus shift issue is apparent, but manageable. The lens itself is a work of wonder..

 

Why don't you try it on first before you buy it? Perhaps you'll understand better regarding the minor drawback of the lens?

 

I used to have the asph version, then I switched to the newest asph II, and find myself no need of tweaking..

[albertknappmd]

Tweeking is simple and the lens is fabulous... Would encourage you to buy it...

[pklein]

+1 on the 35/1.4 ASPH v.1. It is my most-used lens. I just took it on a trip to Israel, where I used it at all stops between wide open and f/11. See my flickr page:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/24844563@N04/

 

Frankly, dealing with the focus shift itself is much less of a problem than dealing with the *fear* of it. I used to shoot it only at f/1.4, f/2 and f/8 because of fear of focus shift. But actually, it's not hard to manage. At middle stops, the focus plane is just slightly behind what the rangefinder says. You can compensate by a tiny tweak. Or, you can use tricks like focusing on a person's nose rather than their eyes. And when you have to work fast, just focus on the closest thing you want in focus.

 

I also have a VC 35/1.2, which doesn't focus shift for all practical purposes. I use this lens when I don't want to bother with compensating, or when I want its really smooth bokeh and more classical look. It's sharp enough, but there's no denying that the 35/1.4 is sharper--scary-sharp in fact.

 

What's really interesting is that the new version of the 35/1.4 ASPH has much reduced the focus shift issues, but at the expense of some bokeh and transition smoothness, according to several people who've used it.

 

--Peter

[Scott Root]

I sold my silver 35 summilus asph because of the focus shift issue even after I had it checked out in Solms. It is a magical lens and I like how it renders even better than the 50 summilux asph, but I found myself skipping F2 - F5.6 for close work and not willing to tweek the focus ring for critical work. Shoot it wide open or set it on F8 and there is no better lens, but I found it too frustrating and sold it. The claims that the silver or titanium 35 summilxu asph has less of a focus shift issue is nonsense.

[jaapv]

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An alternative method is to know your lens and compensate by misfocussing minimally in the critical range

[epand56]

For what I've seen on this Forum (pictures, I mean) the new Lux 35 is not even half good the old one in its overall rendition, especially the bokeh, focus shift or no focus shift.

I would never change my old one with the new.

Besides, in years of use, I've never found this focus shift so much problematic. It is compensated by the wonderful rendering of the lens.

[horosu]

I had the old, as well as the new one. Both exhibit focus shift from f2 onwards until f8, where it is compensated by the DOF. Both lenses backfocus as the aperture is stopped down. You can compensate by intentionally "drawing the focus nearer", but this is not exact science.

 

I am pretty mad at Leica for choosing a compromise for the new version: keep the old formula intact (in order to minimize cost/maximize profit, I suppose) and make the rear elements mobile ("floating").

 

I would gladly have payed more for an entirely new formula which would not exhibit this problem.

 

Horea

[innerimager]

I have the version I and have never had an image suffer from uncompensated focus shift. I do shoot 80% at f1.4 and 2.0 with this lens, but I've shot enough from 2.8-5.6 to be absolutely confident using the lens. It draws beautifully and has a very smooth focus throw. It's my most used lens on the M9, but I use a 35 cron type 4 on my film bodies. best...Peter

[mjh]

What's really interesting is that the new version of the 35/1.4 ASPH has much reduced the focus shift issues, but at the expense of some bokeh and transition smoothness, according to several people who've used it.

Both issues are interconnected. Undercorrected spherical aberration results in a particularly pleasing bokeh but at the same time it causes focus shift. It’s a package deal.

[John Black]

I've been shooting with 35 Lux ASPH for about 4 months on Leica M9 and M8.2 and have had great success. As noted earlier in this thread, the fear of focus shift is the bigger issue. My lens is calibrated at F2 and 2 meters and has been a great set-up for my style. You can read more in the review I posted awhile back - Leica 35mm 1.4 Summilux-M ASPH Review I really like how the 35 Lux ASPH renders its bokeh. The new one (with the floating element) is not my taste.

[Jamie Roberts]

Try it before you buy it...

 

I've shot a chrome 35 Lux for 5 years now, and while it exhibits slight focus shift it's also my go to lens on both the M8 and M9. I have no problem using it at any aperture, because the point of focus is within the focal dof evertime. I don't tweak it either.

 

Of course YMMV, and it seems that different copies are slightly different (with different cameras).

 

I'd never sell this lens

[Hacker]

I'm just wondering why this lens is specifically cited? Would not this affect other lenses also, notably from other manufacturers too?

[mjh]

I'm just wondering why this lens is specifically cited? Would not this affect other lenses also, notably from other manufacturers too?

Sure it does affect other lenses; the old Noctilux was among the worst offenders. Whenever photographers are waxing poetic about the wonderful bokeh of some lens, chances are this lens will also exhibit focus shift.

[Jamie Roberts]

Sure it does affect other lenses; the old Noctilux was among the worst offenders. Whenever photographers are waxing poetic about the wonderful bokeh of some lens, chances are this lens will also exhibit focus shift.

 

Michael, does this vary at all with length and design tweaks?

 

I mean, I have some fabulous teles with great bokeh that don't seem to exhibit any kind of noticeable focus shift; the Mandler 80R Lux for example (whereas the 75 M Lux is almost as tricky as the 35 1.4 ASPH to get right...)

[alexander]

I had one brand new 35 1.4 in my hand. What I found was a very soft and light moving aperture ring? Totaly different to all my other Leica lenses. Is that normal? It was sharp at every aperture on the point I focused at!!!!!

[mjh]

Michael, does this vary at all with length and design tweaks?

 

I mean, I have some fabulous teles with great bokeh that don't seem to exhibit any kind of noticeable focus shift; the Mandler 80R Lux for example (whereas the 75 M Lux is almost as tricky as the 35 1.4 ASPH to get right...)

I don’t have first-hand experience with the Summilux-R 80 but from what I’ve seen it doesn’t look like an obvious case of undercorrected spherical aberration. The bokeh is obviously not at all harsh, but it isn’t extremely soft either (i.e. the circles of confusion aren’t blurry); judging from the images I’ve seen I would say this lens hits the sweet spot quite precisely.

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[hoppyman]

Not even half as good? I think that you may be a little prejudiced.

(Link goes to 1.5MB Image file)

LARGE FILE photo - Geoff Hopkinson photos at pbase.com

 

For what I've seen on this Forum (pictures, I mean) the new Lux 35 is not even half good the old one in its overall rendition, especially the bokeh, focus shift or no focus shift.

I would never change my old one with the new.

Besides, in years of use, I've never found this focus shift so much problematic. It is compensated by the wonderful rendering of the lens.

[UliWer]

... Whenever photographers are waxing poetic about the wonderful bokeh of some lens, chances are this lens will also exhibit focus shift.

 

Though this should apply to the new Noctilux as well - from what I have seen you can't say anything against the bokeh of the new one, but it has less focus shift - or not?

 

The 50lux asph has a more pleasant bokeh than it's non-aspherical precedessor (instead of all legends), but no focus shift - the old one had some.

 

The 75 Summicon has a very pleasant bokeh - focus shift?

 

The 90 Summicron AA has a very slight focus shift (in stead of what has been said here lately) -and a very pleasant bokeh as well.

 

In Sean Reid' comparisons he often reports of considerable focus shift of some Voigtländer lenses - but the bokeh???