Is the 90mm asph/apo Summicron no more?

[Shadow Blaster]

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I have been trying to find a new one to buy for longer than I care to admit. A reliable store told me they were no longer accepting orders for it and thought it was now discontinued by Leica in favor of a yet to be released 90mm Summilux.

 

has anyone else heard about this, or knows of a store that still has stock?

 

John S.

[John McMaster]

A 90 'lux would be a fair chunk of glass.....

 

john

[adan]

90 Summilux - not a hope. The reason Leica had to "re-invent" the 75 focal length in 1980 was because they wanted a "90 Summilux", but basic math, for the diameter required, showed that it would block the rangefinder. A 75 was as big as they could go at that speed. (Old 85 Summarex f/1.5 dated from screw-mount era - different RF location, separate finder required anyway.)

 

I would hardly consider a store "reliable" in Leica matters if they are that ignorant of the line's development and history. "Clueless" would be more accurate.

 

The 90 ASMA is just one of those lenses caught in the demand for lenses brought on by the M9 (as were the 50 f/1.4 and 35 f/1.4). Leica probably sold out their year's supply in 4 months, and new ones will have to wait their turn in the production cycle. The shortage has even driven up prices for the non-APO version by 30% or so in the past year.

 

There are used ones in several locations on the Web.

[UliWer]

The lens has always been a rarity in shops. When I bought mine about ten years ago, I was told that I was lucky to get one at all as they were sought worldwide. With the recent production delays for Leica lenses it is not astonishing, that it is not present everywhere.

 

A clear indication whether Leica stops production of a lens is always the newest price list. The 2/90 AA is in it with a new price, while the 2,8/24 Asph isn't longer listed and when I asked Leica I was told that it was discontinued.

 

Rumours of a 1.4/90 lens are completely irrational fantasies. On the "Leica Erlebnistage" in Wetzlar last months the head of the optical department of Leica, Mr Karbe, spoke for 45 minutes about the DOF of Leica lenses for the M rangefinder system, it's stengths and limitations. He explained that f:/2 for a 90mm lens was the limit of the system, and therefore they never thought about producing a 1.4/90.

 

If a dealer told me anything about a future 90mm Summilux I'd never enter the shop again.

 

Maybe one day we'll see a new 90mm Summicron. But it will take a lot to better the present lens.

[tobey bilek]

90 Lux ain`t going to happen. They will make another batch when its turn in the cycle come around. They normally make a batch of lenses once a year and they try to make a years supply at a time.

 

Thats what the rep told me when they had reps who knew the customers. Not now of course. I think my 90 was $450 new.

[D&A]

I think if Leica was to reintroduce a redesigned 90mm AA (fro M), I think it wouldn't be because of better performance nor increased speed. My personal experience when using this lens on a M8 or M9 (with dead on perfect focusing with every lens I've tried so far, including the 50mm f1.4, 75mm Lux, 90mm Pre Asph (E55),135mm f4, Noct etc.) with over 6 samples of this particular lens has mixed. As some others have reported, the lens at certain distances would focus perfectly and at other ranges be way off. I even tried some of these on an acquaintances M9 which was focusing perfectly and the results with each lens was much the same. No doubt when the 90 AA does focus accurately, it's sharpness is all one could ask for when looking at such

 

Yes, no doubt there are some who do have this lens and it focuses perfectly on their body but I've heard just as many give up on this lens for this very reason. This and the 135mm f3.4 is another where accurate focusing at all distances has been somewhat problematic.

 

What I can see possibly happening is a redesign of the internals of the lens (and possibly some of the glass/groupings) that might help eliminate these focusing difficulties.

 

Sort of like (but not exactly like) the introduction of the newest 35mm Lux asph, that all but eliminated focus shift issues. Again not the same problem as the 90 AA, but an attempt to tweak and make a more consistent focusing lens.

 

Dave (D&A)

[chrism]

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The 2/90 AA is in it with a new price, while the 2,8/24 Asph isn't longer listed and when I asked Leica I was told that it was discontinued.

 

That's a shame about the Elmarit 24 - a wonderful lens.

 

Chris

[UliWer]

...

 

Yes, no doubt there are some who do have this lens and it focuses perfectly on their body but I've heard just as many give up on this lens for this very reason. This and the 135mm f3.4 is another where accurate focusing at all distances has been somewhat problematic.

 

What I can see possibly happening is a redesign of the internals of the lens (and possibly some of the glass/groupings) that might help eliminate these focusing difficulties.

 

Sort of like (but not exactly like) the introduction of the newest 35mm Lux asph, that all but eliminated focus shift issues. Again not the same problem as the 90 AA, but an attempt to tweak and make a more consistent focusing lens.

 

...

 

I think users will always differ on this. The 90AA has always been critized for having a very long focussing throw, which is true. The throw of the 75 Summicron is much shorter, as short as for the 50lux. I have much more problems to focus the 75cron exactly than the 90cron AA. The long throw gives you a chance for very subtle tuning of focus, whilst with the short throw of the 75 cron the effect of a subtle change is often too much. Others think, the 90AA is too slow to focus, to which I agree in certain situations.

 

You (and Leica) will always have to compromize: do you want easy focussing - then the 90cron may be not the best choice, as it is at the very limits of the rangefinder system. You can't change this with the same opening of the lens; no glass or mechanics will help you over the laws of optics.

 

Or do you want a quick lens for specialists, who can manage a Noctilux or Apo-Telyt without problems? Than make the focussing throw of the 90AA shorter - with the result of frustration for many mortals.-

[D&A]

I think users will always differ on this. The 90AA has always been critized for having a very long focussing throw, which is true. The throw of the 75 Summicron is much shorter, as short as for the 50lux. I have much more problems to focus the 75cron exactly than the 90cron AA. The long throw gives you a chance for very subtle tuning of focus, whilst with the short throw of the 75 cron the effect of a subtle change is often too much. Others think, the 90AA is too slow to focus, to which I agree in certain situations.

 

You (and Leica) will always have to compromize: do you want easy focussing - then the 90cron may be not the best choice, as it is at the very limits of the rangefinder system. You can't change this with the same opening of the lens; no glass or mechanics will help you over the laws of optics.

 

Or do you want a quick lens for specialists, who can manage a Noctilux or Apo-Telyt without problems? Than make the focussing throw of the 90AA shorter - with the result of frustration for many mortals.-

 

IN regards to the above statement...the issues I described in detail in my earlier post wasn't due to long or short throw focusing. It had to do with the apparent difficulty in getting 90mm AA lenses to focus farily accurately at all distances when used on a M8 or M9. For some samples, no amount of careful, deliberate, tripod mounted focusing (with or without a magnifier) helped. Samples of this lens would simply misfocus by substantial margins on perfectly calibrated M8's and M9's. IN fact although an optically different lens, on those same bodies (which samples of the 90AA would misfocus), two 90mm f2 pre asph (E55) lenses focused perfectly during the same testing sessions at all distances. I believe the throw of focusing on the pre asph (e55) is much the same as the 90AA. I don't know where the problem lies, but clearly others have noticed this same issue with quite a few samples of the 90mm Aa, both out of the box, and even after a number of attempts by Leica or those qualified to adjust these lenses. I once had a perfect focusing90mm AA sample which focused properly on the M8 at that time, so they do exist.

 

Dave (D&A)

[tgray]

Maybe they are redesigning the lens with floating elements or something else to improve the close up performance. Most likely they are just out of stock and it's in the queue to be built again.

[jaapv]

Maybe somebody is spreading the rumor to inflate used prices....

[luigi bertolotti]

That's a shame about the Elmarit 24 - a wonderful lens.

 

Chris

 

And the prices of the used Elmarit 24 have already started to arise... (I just saw 2 for sale at about 30% more I paid for mine 1 year ago) I think it has been a strange decision... the Summilux is of all another price tag, and the 24 asph is a fantastic lens.

[jaapv]

I have a very strong suspicion that it was a logical decision. 24 mm historically has not been a very popular focal length with photograhers. The reason we have been seeing more of those lenses lately is the advent of APS sensor cameras, that give the FOV of approx 35 mm. Now that Leica has reverted to full frame, I doubt that they sell enough of the lenses to make it ecomnomically viable. The Summilux is a different case, as its speed makes it an interesting narrow DOF/Wideangle lens and thus more interesting for creative purposes.

[luigi bertolotti]

I have a very strong suspicion that it was a logical decision. 24 mm historically has not been a very popular focal length with photograhers. The reason we have been seeing more of those lenses lately is the advent of APS sensor cameras, that give the FOV of approx 35 mm. Now that Leica has reverted to full frame, I doubt that they sell enough of the lenses to make it ecomnomically viable. The Summilux is a different case, as its speed makes it an interesting narrow DOF/Wideangle lens and thus more interesting for creative purposes.

 

Indeed... I should have better written "...is a fantastic lens on my M8"

[Shadow Blaster]

Very happy resolution for me at least. Got an e-mail totally out of the blue this morning from one of the dealers I have been in touch with saying they had just got in a 90mm AA and would I want it! I jumped right on it and should have it by the end of the week. Can hardly wait to use it with my 10 remaining rolls of Kodachrome 64. Yippee!

 

John S.

[jaapv]

Where are you going to get that Kodachrome developed?

[tgray]

Where are you going to get that Kodachrome developed?

 

Dwayne's? We still have till the end of the month to get it in.

 

I'm sending in my last 6 rolls tomorrow.

[jaapv]

So John has to shoot ten rolls in two weeks...

[tgray]

So John has to shoot ten rolls in two weeks...

 

Yup. I shot my 6 rolls in two days. Not that that is anything impressive.

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Hallo,

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[LeicaPassion]

A new 90AA will arrive tomorrow. So Leica is still shipping them. I can't wait for the doorbell to ring.