marcusperkins Posted November 29, 2010 Author Share #21 Posted November 29, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Actually, I'm joking in most of my posts. And I'm serious when I say this. An expensive way to learn somebody has a sense of humour Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 29, 2010 Posted November 29, 2010 Hi marcusperkins, Take a look here Mystery Puncture. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Xmas Posted November 29, 2010 Share #22 Posted November 29, 2010 We are so concerned about bedbugs in our region, that now when I come back from a trip, I'm required to place my suitcase inside a black trash bag and leave it in the sun on our deck for about a week. I have to strip down in the garage. Next is a decontamination chamber. Hi Alan Do you keep a lens in your suitcase? Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 29, 2010 Share #23 Posted November 29, 2010 Hi AlanDo you keep a lens in your suitcase? Noel No. She generally throws all the camera gear into the pool just to make sure there is nothing inside of it. There's some good stuff in the deep section. Seriously, I don't keep any camera gear in the suitcase. Considering what her three dogs did to the house while we were gone on vacation last week, I don't see bedbugs as much of an issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusperkins Posted November 29, 2010 Author Share #24 Posted November 29, 2010 Considering what her three dogs did to the house while we were gone on vacation last week, I don't see bedbugs as much of an issue. Ah, you do realise dogs are used for detecting bedbugs - perhaps that's why they behaved the way they did. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted November 29, 2010 Share #25 Posted November 29, 2010 Hello Marcus, I had a similar hole repaired by leitz back in the late 1960's or early 1970's by their patching it w/ some kind of gop. Possibly but I am not sure the same rubber compound they rubberize the shutter material w/. Although the curtains appears aesthetically challenged they have operated without a problem all these years. BTW: I think if you would check you would find the shutter blinds are made of rubberized cotton. Also: I vote sun FWIW. Seems like a hole created by the sun & then distended by the winding & firing of the shutter until you noticed it. You might check back thru your photos to find out when it first appeared, academically interesting. Let us know what happens when you have it repaired please. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted November 30, 2010 Share #26 Posted November 30, 2010 Hi The significant clue is that most of the damage is in the lower part of the shutter fabric, the camera has probably been on a neck strap, then you only need to stop for a few seconds and you have a burn hole, the more minor scorch marks while moving or turning slowly. Leaving it on a outside coffee table, no one would do that. Easy to do. If you have a M6 or later use a cap, earlier you need to be careful. Don't use a neck strap, too easy to burn a hole. One of the photos of HCB show his fav collapsible cron with him palming a lens cap on a lanyard in left hand. None of use have taken photos of lens caps have we? Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusperkins Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share #27 Posted November 30, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) I can see that under the perfect conditions it would be easy to get a burn hole, but in reality it is rare. I've spent much of my professional career shooting into the sun with Leica M, but this did not happen whilst working - no film has been affected. The idea of capping the lens in between shots would not be feasible - certainly not for my work. And the idea of not using a strap is also not really possible. Constantly putting the camera into a bag is also not a good way to work for me. If fact I don't often use any kind of protection of any kind when shooting with the M, but it's never been a problem over the past 20 years. But as I stated earlier, I am now confident it is the result of freak incident involving a very low sun (thanks Noel), trees branches, and a mirror. Never the less, a lesson has been learned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted November 30, 2010 Share #28 Posted November 30, 2010 Hi Marcus First I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, the only good news is that I don't think the camera could have damaged the curtain like this. I use an rfdr on a wrist strap or neck strap tied around right hand wrist, prefocused at 6 foot, with wide angle lens. So I'd be exposed to any sun damage, except I always point the camera explicitly. The wide angle at 6 foot means the sun image (sun at infinity) is focused on the blind (forward of the focal plane), over a wide angle... Never use a cap even in gbag, I'd take too many cap shots. Never had damage in forty years with Leicas... If I'm not using the camera it goes in the gbag immediately. It is much more exposed to use a neck strap around the neck. I shoot one handed most of time from the hip, sometimes at eye level two handed. I use a Canon P or VI the majority of time (60%) cause their steel shutter (a Barnack clone but in steel) is more tolerant of sun burn. People with M8 or M9 wont have much more tolerance, local heat may still cause damage... Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
too old to care Posted November 30, 2010 Share #29 Posted November 30, 2010 Ok, not to hijack this thread, but a question on the subject. I have taken hundreds of photos looking up at the sun through trees to get photos of light cascading through the branches and leaves. I focus on the leaves and not the sun. I just looked at my curtain and it looks like new. So, does this pose any dangers, or have I just been lucky? My shots are usually about 125 of a second and the f-stop is pretty much wide open (F2-50mm cron), but I often take several seconds to focus thus the curtain is exposed all the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted November 30, 2010 Share #30 Posted November 30, 2010 If you are in the shade you should be ok, if the sun does not upset your eyes focusing. I've not had a problem in 40 years either, but some people do burn shutters. Normally they are repairable with fabric paint. And shutter ribbons don't last for ever, but you could lose shots. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 30, 2010 Share #31 Posted November 30, 2010 Ok, not to hijack this thread, but a question on the subject. I have taken hundreds of photos looking up at the sun through trees to get photos of light cascading through the branches and leaves. I focus on the leaves and not the sun. I just looked at my curtain and it looks like new. So, does this pose any dangers, or have I just been lucky? My shots are usually about 125 of a second and the f-stop is pretty much wide open (F2-50mm cron), but I often take several seconds to focus thus the curtain is exposed all the time. The shutter is in front of the film plane. This helps reduce the problem when at infinity. If the lens is focused closer, then the image of the sun will be more in focus and thus hotter. You can easily test this yourself by holding a lens in front of some black cloth. (Preferably rubberized.) Note: white paper and black cardboard will take longer to burn, but a shutter curtain can be damaged very quickly when the sun is in focus. For extra credit, test it on different materials and time them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
too old to care Posted November 30, 2010 Share #32 Posted November 30, 2010 Thanks Alan, I guess I have just been lucky, or the leaves filtered out the sun enough to protect the curtain since I am often focusing much closer than infinity. Hate to hurt the old beast now, it has been such a good camera for many years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 30, 2010 Share #33 Posted November 30, 2010 I have to say that live view and EVFs have a real advantage when shooting into the sun as they protect your vision from the bright light of the sun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob139 Posted November 30, 2010 Share #34 Posted November 30, 2010 Together with the other marks on the curtain it looks more like scratch damage to me than sunburn. My bet is that you have (had) something in the camera that is loose and that is damaging your shuttercurtain. Cheers, Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcusperkins Posted November 30, 2010 Author Share #35 Posted November 30, 2010 Hi Marcus First I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, the only good news is that I don't think the camera could have damaged the curtain like this. Not bad tidings at all - I'm rather pleased with your input, particularly with highlighting the low sun issue - not something I would ever have considered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted December 1, 2010 Share #36 Posted December 1, 2010 Out of interest, if teh sunburn made a spot defect, would leaving the camera somewhere while the sun moved over time, arc out a pattern on curtain? If it got left on the same shelf a couple of times .... Ps ... Never seen it before, and had thought it was something that had scratched the fabric. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted December 1, 2010 Share #37 Posted December 1, 2010 For the record - a lens or mirror or laser CAN MOST CERTAINLY leave "scores" or "scratches" when burning a trail across a flammable material: A sheet of paper burning with a lens sim - Photo - LIFE http://image.guim.co.uk/Guardian/arts/gallery/2008/jan/14/exhibition/GD5672903@Cornelia-ParkerMeteor-5360.jpg http://www.a-whole-nother.org/images/IMG_0984c.JPG Windscreen-focused sunlight melting plastic? - Pashnit Motorcycle Forum Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted December 1, 2010 Share #38 Posted December 1, 2010 Together with the other marks on the curtain it looks more like scratch damage to me than sunburn. My bet is that you have (had) something in the camera that is loose and that is damaging your shuttercurtain. Cheers, Rob Sigh, suggest you need to read the instruction booklet that came with the M or Barnack... and I don't think there are any bits likely to migrate unto front face of curtain. The scratch marks are characteristic in position and damage from sun burn. In '50s both Nikon and Canon replaced the silk rubber impregnated fabric with steel foil, think the modern M ones are now artificial fabric. The Ja did this for cause, the Canon shutters can still be damaged! You need to make sure that if a film is damaged then all shards of film are removed, as they can damaged a shutter badly. I'd still be careful with a M8 or M9 from sun damage ... Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootist Posted December 1, 2010 Share #39 Posted December 1, 2010 Maybe its my eyes but in your first image I see what looks like a cross (+) on the big hole which could be from a small Phillips head screw driver. I don't notice this cross in the close up images. A burn hole would have sharper edges, IMHO. This looks to be a puncher of some type from the front, lens side, of the camera. Also the other mark, to the left of the meter dot, looks to be pushed in which could only happen from the lens side of th camera. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted December 1, 2010 Share #40 Posted December 1, 2010 A burn hole would have sharper edges, IMHO. This looks to be a puncher of some type from the front, lens side, of the camera. Also the other mark, to the left of the meter dot, looks to be pushed in which could only happen from the lens side of th camera. When I used a lens to burn a piece of gaffers tape, it did not produce sharp edges. Why don't you try using the lens to burn a similar piece of cloth and see for yourself if you can duplicate the holes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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