Zeiss 21mm Viewfinder - I hate it (read on)

[john cleland]

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Hi all

 

Further to my post yesterday regarding purchasing a second hand 21mm Elmarit and Zeiss T* F21 viewfinder, I thought I better had let you know that the viewfinder arrived today and I hate it!

 

Why?

 

Because it makes the built in viewfinder on my M9 appear completely and utterly dismal! The Zeiss is beautifully bright, amazingly so. I tried the multi viewfinder that comes with the Tri Elmar at the weekend - that was good but I really think that the Zeiss simply blows it away.

 

So a big thank you to those of you who made their comments on this site regarding the Zeiss finder - you weren't wrong. Hopefully the lens will arrive tomorrow and then I can start experimenting.

 

Cheers John

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[3rdtrick]

You got my attention!!! I have the Zeiss 18 finder and it is totally awesome. I am sure that a single FL Leica finder would be just a clear and bright.

Pete

[innerimager]

Taking it a step farther- I am so enthralled with my Zeiss 21 finder that I bought a Zeiss Ikon in hopes that the finder was as good. It is very nice, bigger and a bit brighter than my M9 and M7, but no where near as bright and clear as the external viewfinder. (I'd rate my M3 finder slightly ahead of the Ikon actually). I sent the Ikon back......Peter

[Hacker]

Is the comparison fair between an external VF and the built in VF? I always thought the simpler, external VF would always outperform the more complex built in VF. The same goes for the Leica external VFs. They are brighter:

 

[lars_bergquist]

Even the old plastic Leica viewfinders were brighter than the M camera finder. The reason is very simple: The camera finder must do quite a bit of light shunting by means of a beamsplitter. So lots of light is lost there. Have you ever tried an old completely non-optical wire frame finder? It is even brighter!

 

The old man from the Age of the Focusing Cloth

[DFV]

Guys! ALL simple external viewfinders are brighter and cleaner than the built-in or more complex finders! (And Lars well explains...)

 

If you like the Zeiss you should try the Leica ones on the picture up top. You will be blown away twice.

[innerimager]

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Fair enough gents, I had to rational business expecting the Ikon finder to be nearly as good as the external. Hope springs eternal but external beats internal.

[DFV]

 

 

One question; What neck strap is that on your M9?

[Michael Hiles]

The old Leitz 50mm brightline finder on a screwmount Leica is a real treat compared to the pokey finders in the old cameras.

[MarkP]

Personally, I think the Zeiss 21 is much better than the Leica VF AND is much cheaper.

 

The strap on the M9 looks like a silk Artist & Artisan.

 

Mark

[adan]

As Lars and others have pointed out - external finders have the "luxury" of not having to simultaneously provide a focusing mechanism. So they can be "Big and Bright" just like "The stars at night, deep in the heart of Texas." (sorry - it just popped out!).

 

I will, however, bookmark this thread for future reference and links when "I hate external viewfinders" posts appear.

[J_Thompson]

Have you ever tried an old completely non-optical wire frame finder? It is even brighter!

 

Thanks for the laugh, Lars!!

[budrichard]

I have both Leitz 21mm and Zeiss 21mm Finders.

While the Zeiss finder is brilliant, it is NOT over the lens centerline with M cameras and introduces a rotation with a 21mm lens. Back to the Leitz finder for me which is offset for M cameras.-Dick

[MarkP]

I have both Leitz 21mm and Zeiss 21mm Finders.

While the Zeiss finder is brilliant, it is NOT over the lens centerline with M cameras and introduces a rotation with a 21mm lens. Back to the Leitz finder for me which is offset for M cameras.-Dick

.

 

Thanks for bringing this up.

I'll have to look at the Leica 21mm VF again.

 

Mark

[Muizen]

I apologize for asking the following question because it might reveal that I am less of an amateur!

I am close now to purchasing a M9 with fast lenses but I am still in the process of learning about using the Leica M9.

I wonder why you use a viewfinder? Do you first focus and then switch over to the viewfinder for shooting the photo?

I assume that you can not focus when using the viewfinder?

Thanks for your reply!

[microview]

I apologize for asking the following question because it might reveal that I am less of an amateur!

I am close now to purchasing a M9 with fast lenses but I am still in the process of learning about using the Leica M9.

I wonder why you use a viewfinder? Do you first focus and then switch over to the viewfinder for shooting the photo?

I assume that you can not focus when using the viewfinder?

Thanks for your reply!

 

Inbuilt viewfinder does not cope with lenses wider than 28mm. I use 24mm lens but live quite happily with the wider image captured, relative to what the finder shows. Check out the cost of a Leica finder! Hacker's little group represents a small fortune!

[jlancasterd]

One question; What neck strap is that on your M9?

 

It's an Artisan and Artist silk cord strap - I have a black one on my M9 and it's the best strap I have ever used. I quote the maker's blurb:

 

>For thousands of years, a special breed of artists in Japan have made silk cords of exceptional strength, texture and beauty. These KUMIHIMO artists are known throughout the world for making braided straps for use on the battle armour and swords of the feared Samurai warriors. Artisan & Artist has revived this classic art by employing specialists who weave these steely cameras straps by the traditional methods. The length of this strap can be shortened by tying loose knots in it, which also helps keep the camera positioned firmly in front of you without sliding back and forth on one's neck. Artisan & Artist has discovered quite an invention in the Silk Cord Strap!<

 

 

Unfortunately they are expensive - around £95 in UK.

[RockyIII]

It's an Artisan and Artist silk cord strap - I have a black one on my M9 and it's the best strap I have ever used.

 

I also have an Artisan & Artist black silk cord strap and love it. Very light and flexible.

 

Rocky

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[lars_bergquist]

I apologize for asking the following question because it might reveal that I am less of an amateur!

I am close now to purchasing a M9 with fast lenses but I am still in the process of learning about using the Leica M9.

I wonder why you use a viewfinder? Do you first focus and then switch over to the viewfinder for shooting the photo?

I assume that you can not focus when using the viewfinder?

Thanks for your reply!

You focus with the rangefinder, which is seen in the camera viewfinder. After focusing, move your eye over to the auxiliary viewfinder, compose and shoot. -- Needless to say, you can also use zone focusing with wide angle lenses. This means that by stopping the lens down a bit, you create a "sharp zone" and you are home free as long as your subject moves within that zone. This is an established reportage technique: "F:8 and be there" as the old press photogs used to say.

 

All this may seem like a messy busness, but it is not. It is quick and becomes automatic, like riding a bicycle. You will of course be dumped head first into a bramble or two before you get the hang of it. With a digital camera, this is pretty painless. Have fun!

 

And when you have got your first sharp and well composed action picture, you can say to yourself: "That was not a little electronic imp from Osaka or Tokyo who did that. I did that!

 

The old man from the Age of the Leica IIIa

[H. James Wolf]

I have Zeiss,Leica, and CV external finders. The Zeiss are consistently brighter than either Leica or CV. As far as centering goes, if I want exact framing, I'll use an F2 or F3 Nikon. That's not what rangefinders are about.