silentmovies Posted October 25, 2010 Share #1 Posted October 25, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hey, I've been meaning to get a Leica for sometime. Now I was offered a M3 body for 390 €, it's meant to be in good working order a bit battered though. As I'm student I'm usually a bit low on cash, means once I'll get the camera I won't be able to invest too much in a lense. The same seller offered me an Elmar (which one I can't remember) for aother 350 €. Which is (at least right now) too much for me. Therefore I'm looking for a rather affordable lens (max up too 200 €, preferably cheaper), which will give me ok results for its price. Any tips are appreciated! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted October 25, 2010 Posted October 25, 2010 Hi silentmovies, Take a look here Looking for right (affordable) M Lens. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted October 25, 2010 Share #2 Posted October 25, 2010 Welcome to the forum! Which Elmar were you offered? There were thread and M bayonet versions of the 3.5 and 2.8 50mm Elmar, and the later version 2.8 Elmar. If you were offered a late model 2.8 the price is excellent. If it's an earlier lens it's expensive! All of the Elmar's are good lenses, but the optical condition is most important i.e. clear, scratch free, haze/fog and fungus free. The M3 is a great classic Leica. Bear in mind that the widest frame line is for a 50mm lens, you will need a shoe mounted finder or goggled lenses to use something wider. If you're happy with a 50mm lens to start then firstly check which one you have been offered. If its not the latest one then look for a cheaper older version (you can easily find the older design 3.5 5cm Elmar for under 200euro and with a bit of searching the M mount versions for about 200) or consider the Voigtlander lenses, a 35 or 50mm Skopar (you will need a finder with the 35) or possibly a goggled 35mm Summaron Leica lens. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richam Posted October 25, 2010 Share #3 Posted October 25, 2010 Agree with James. A collapsible 50mm Elmar makes a great first rangefinder lens. The balance is good, and focusing quick and intuitive. Plus, when collapsed, you can carry the camera in jacket or cargo pants pocket. You should be able to find a reasonably recent one (although not the latest) within your budget. You still need to be careful about lens condition. Good luck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentmovies Posted October 25, 2010 Author Share #4 Posted October 25, 2010 Thanks for the advice so far! Although do you think the price for the camera is justified? The shop selling it is reliable, so it'll be working pretty smooth. The only flow is a battered look. How do I tell an early from a late version of the Elmar 2.8? Another thought is to get a really cheap lens, like one of the better russian copies and save money until I will be able to afford a good one. Do you have any experience with the cheap russian copies? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
normclarke Posted October 25, 2010 Share #5 Posted October 25, 2010 Hi, If you are really looking for 'cheap' quality I can from experience say the Canon 50/1.8 is to my knowledge the bargain of the century. I payed £60 for my version which is one of the later editions and in very nice condition. Not to snipe at Leica quality but I was really suprised at the solidity and performance of this lens. Best, normclarke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 25, 2010 Share #6 Posted October 25, 2010 Hello silentmovies, Welcome to the forum. Using xxxx for the last 4 digits please send us the serial #s of both the lens & camera. You might be surprised with what you might learn. Dates, models, variations & more. Remember: Always xxxx the last 4. Not just in photography either. No one needs them except you. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted October 25, 2010 Share #7 Posted October 25, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks for the advice so far! Although do you think the price for the camera is justified? The shop selling it is reliable, so it'll be working pretty smooth. The only flow is a battered look. How do I tell an early from a late version of the Elmar 2.8? Another thought is to get a really cheap lens, like one of the better russian copies and save money until I will be able to afford a good one. Do you have any experience with the cheap russian copies? If the camera is in good working order then the price is very good - does it come with a warranty? Don't worry about the cosmetics, at least you won't be afraid to use it! The later Elmars are very different, you can google them or look on red dots website for pictures. The latest one doesn't have a focus tab, that's the easiest clue. I have a Russian Jupiter 8 lens, excellent quality, but they vary so much. You might have to buy a few lemons to find a peach. Buy a Leica lens and you'll be certain to get a peach first time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentmovies Posted October 26, 2010 Author Share #8 Posted October 26, 2010 The serial no.: M3 1880xxx ELMAR 1989xxx I'm curious what this'll reveal! And I wonder: Are there any disadvantages with mounting a M39 on a M System? And what exactly means goggle in context of camera lenses (never heard that before)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 26, 2010 Share #9 Posted October 26, 2010 The serial no.: M3 1880xxx ELMAR 1989xxx I'm curious what this'll reveal! And I wonder: Are there any disadvantages with mounting a M39 on a M System? And what exactly means goggle in context of camera lenses (never heard that before)? "Goggles" "Goggled lenses" are well known terms in Leica world .. and they refer mainly to M3: M3 has a viewfinder which shows the frames for 50/90/135 mm lenses: but 35mm has always been a very appreciated focal, so, in the '50s and until '70s, Leitz made a number of 35mm lenses (Summaron f3,5 and 2,8, Summicron f 2, Summilux f 1,4) which had an optical accessory which enlarged the 50mm frame to show the 35mm field: they are known as "goggled lenses" for the typical look of this attachment (sse example herunder) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! To be precise, there are other kinds of "goggles"... an Elmarit 135 mm which enlarged the 90mm frame, and a "goggle unit" for a special Summicron 50mm to focus at short distances. You have no problem at all to mount M39 lenses on M3: a simple and easy to find screw-to-bayonet adapter is needed (it must match the lens' focal to make the correct frame appear in the viewfinder). BUT... there is something strange in the Serial Number you wrote : a Leica M3 cannot have a 1.880.xxx number (and, indeed, neither 880.xxx, which is of "M3 era" but belongs to a IIIG); 1.989.xxx is OK for an Elmar 50 f 2,8 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! To be precise, there are other kinds of "goggles"... an Elmarit 135 mm which enlarged the 90mm frame, and a "goggle unit" for a special Summicron 50mm to focus at short distances. You have no problem at all to mount M39 lenses on M3: a simple and easy to find screw-to-bayonet adapter is needed (it must match the lens' focal to make the correct frame appear in the viewfinder). BUT... there is something strange in the Serial Number you wrote : a Leica M3 cannot have a 1.880.xxx number (and, indeed, neither 880.xxx, which is of "M3 era" but belongs to a IIIG); 1.989.xxx is OK for an Elmar 50 f 2,8 ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/135021-looking-for-right-affordable-m-lens/?do=findComment&comment=1483192'>More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 26, 2010 Share #10 Posted October 26, 2010 The serial no.: M3 1880xxx ELMAR 1989xxx I'm curious what this'll reveal! I'll tell you what that reveals: This is THE latest M3 I have EVER come across. M3s stopped at serial nos. 1 16x xxx. And frankly, I do not believe the serial no. of your M3, but guess that the "1" in front is a typo. If so, the M3 serial no. 880 xxx is a mid-term M3, which will likely be single stroke (meaning you need only one single stroke to advance the film and cock the shutter. Earlier M3's required two strokes, and were thus dubbed 'dual stroke'). The lens dates from about 1960, if my memory serves right, and is a good lens if in good condition. Many of those, however, have what is called fog on the interior surfaces of the lens elements, which will reduce contrast and increase glare. Shine a flashlight through the lens (lens aperture should be fully opened) and you will see whether the lens elements are clear and clean or not. Still, the asking price for the lens is on the high side, so you may want to look for something cheaper. Andy I see, Luigi has noted the strange M3 serial no., too. I did not check whether there where any 880 xxx M3's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentmovies Posted October 26, 2010 Author Share #11 Posted October 26, 2010 It's strange as the serialnumber of the M3 is definitely not a typo, it's in fact what I've been told on the phone earlier on. Considering that the guy made a rather trustworthy impression I may have to phone in tomorrow to double check. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 26, 2010 Share #12 Posted October 26, 2010 Hello Everybody, 880xxx would have been a IIIg from 1957. M3s from that year began w/ 882,001. A 1957 M3 with that # would be a double stroke. The last M3 recorded was probably around 1,164,865 Single stroke. Elmar 1,989xxx would be from1963. It would be a 2,8 Please keep in mind: Leitz did make lenses & cameras on special order @ later dates. For example: Version I rigid 50mm Summicron screwmount # 2,279,578. That is a # from 1968 and yet the last recorded date of production for that model was 1963. The last lens # assignable for 1963 was 2,015,700. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 26, 2010 Share #13 Posted October 26, 2010 Please keep in mind: Leitz did make lenses & cameras on special order @ later dates. That is certainly true. However, the serial no. of 1 880 xxx would make that an M3 from roughly 1990 (?), and I simply can't believe Leica still manufactured a M3 at that time, not even on special order. But who knows, they DID make a batch of SL2's around 1990. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 26, 2010 Share #14 Posted October 26, 2010 Hello Again Everybody, Then again: Are we really sure it says M3 or does it look like an M3 and say something else? Therefore not questioning the accuracy of the serial #. What else does it say on the camera body other than the serial #? Does the serial # begin: M3 - 188xxxx at the front of the top of the camera in front of the accessory holder looking from behind it? If not: Where is it? What part is it written on? Is it a horizontal number looking from the back? Or is it vertical, possibly written sideways? Do the top, bottom, back or sides say anything? If so what? Remember to xxxx the last 4 of any serial # please. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentmovies Posted October 26, 2010 Author Share #15 Posted October 26, 2010 Just in case it IS that number and it was a late production, are you familiar with the quality of these cameras (produced after massproduction has stopped)? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted October 26, 2010 Share #16 Posted October 26, 2010 Hello Again silentmovies. Not to worry. The quality of most Leica/Leitz things is generally OK @ most time periods. This includes all the actual & potential time periods we are talking about in regard to this camera & lens. Best Regards, Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted October 27, 2010 Share #17 Posted October 27, 2010 Just in case it IS that number and it was a late production, are you familiar with the quality of these cameras (produced after massproduction has stopped)? In that case, I would not worry about quality. It would be a true collector's item, worth much more than you will pay for. But I still doubt it. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted October 27, 2010 Share #18 Posted October 27, 2010 I'm curios to know how this mistery of the s/n ends... ... it seems to me impossible that, on a (hipotetical) M3 built to special order they put on a s/n that, according to Puts, should have been assigned in 1991 to a Leica Mini... (unless the shopper tries to sell a battered Leica Mini and a standalone Elmar ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted October 27, 2010 Share #19 Posted October 27, 2010 The serial no.: M3 1880xxx ELMAR 1989xxx I'm curious what this'll reveal! And I wonder: Are there any disadvantages with mounting a M39 on a M System? And what exactly means goggle in context of camera lenses (never heard that before)? http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/80354-looking-cameras-lens-year-issue.html :rolleyes: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
normclarke Posted October 28, 2010 Share #20 Posted October 28, 2010 We really seem to have strayed from the OP's original request to find a suitable affordable lens for his M3. Probably the cheapest would be a late 50mm Elmar f3.5 which seems to have the edge on the f2.8. Best, nomclarke. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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