erl Posted September 10, 2010 Share #1 Posted September 10, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) One of my M8's had an accident and damaged the shutter (Err displayed). I have been given the option to repair the shutter with a CLA for $300+ OR replace the shutter, which would obviously be the upgraded 1/4000 ver. for $900+. My insurance has an excess of $500 so clearly I would pay the first option out of my pocket, or chip in an extra $200 and make a claim and thereby get the 'upgraded' shutter deal. My camera is one of the original delivery back in 2006. Any opinions on the smartest course to follow? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 10, 2010 Posted September 10, 2010 Hi erl, Take a look here M8 Shutter Upgrade - Yes or No. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
menos I M6 Posted September 10, 2010 Share #2 Posted September 10, 2010 I never missed the 1/8000 speed on my M8.2. As I understand it, the "upgraded" (I prefer feature changed) shutter is slightly less loud too. If after the insurance claim, there are no higher premiums involved, I would go with the claim and have the newer shutter + included warranty. Paying USD 200 for a brand new shutter with warranty, to prolong life of camera and peace of mind seems a small price to me. Good luck with either decision ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoersch Posted September 10, 2010 Share #3 Posted September 10, 2010 There have been numerous reports of the original M8 shutters disintegrating for no particular reason. To my knowledge this has never happend with the new (slower) shutter. So, I would gladly spend the extra money for the new shutter... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carl E Posted September 10, 2010 Share #4 Posted September 10, 2010 I would definitely go for the new shutter, mainly because of the much lower shutter noise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstotler Posted September 10, 2010 Share #5 Posted September 10, 2010 One of my M8's had an accident and damaged the shutter (Err displayed). I have been given the option to repair the shutter with a CLA for $300+ OR replace the shutter, which would obviously be the upgraded 1/4000 ver. for $900+. When this happened to me, I had the as-designed shutter re-installed rather than upgrade. I often-enough find myself "backed into a corner" speed-wise with f/2 and f/2.8 in bright sunlight. (I shoot "aperture priority" 90% to 95% of the time.) So the original shutter's 1/8000th does get its use on sunny days. Additionally, the flash sync speed for the upgraded shutter is 1/180th and not 1/250th. I've needed the 1/250th when using flash, also. The shutter noise from the M8 doesn't bother me at all. Or my subjects. I use a Luigi half-case and it dampens the noise well enough. Forum consensus is that the older shutter is not "quiet." My consensus is that "noisy shutter" is so far at the bottom of the list for reasons to lose a shot as to be, well, meaningless. There is a common thought that the newer shutter will hold up better because it's not using as much force when it fires--resident teardown artist Mark Norton commented on the newer shutter in a thread about this topic some time back. I don't doubt the newer shutter exerts less force when it fires. However, there is no proof the newer shutter holds up any better than the older one. Lack of reports about newer-style shutter failures on this forum does not mean they won't suffer from problems, yet to be discovered/reported and unique to them. Resale value hasn't come up in the thread yet, but I personally don't think the shutter itself is a factor, newer or older style. I do think that the shutter replacement--and camera being CLAed--will help resale value, provided you sell the M8 soon enough that the CLA matters to the buyer ("Recently CLAed") and you don't put a ton of actuations on the new shutter, regardless of shutter type ("Low Shutter Count"). Since I've already had a shutter replacement (at about 50K actuations), if the replaced shutter requires replacement before 100K actuations I'm going to have a long conversation with Leica about it--fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. I think the decision is a trade-off between these factors--loss of your upper end of speed and a bit of flash sync speed vs. perceived (but not proven) shutter durability and (slightly) reduced shutter noise. I can say the first time I needed 1/8000 after my camera came back repaired, I was very glad I hadn't upgraded the shutter. Cheers! Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_g_wolf ✝ Posted September 10, 2010 Share #6 Posted September 10, 2010 Do it ! The new shutter is quite a bit quieter than the old one and comes close in it´s sound to the more cultivated M9-shutter. In my opinion a very worthwhile change. 1/8000 sec. might be useful for a rocketphotograph, a pretty rare occasion. In case you are cought on the beach with your NOCTILUX a grey-filter could help. best GEORG Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
falkk Posted September 10, 2010 Share #7 Posted September 10, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) It seems there is a vote for upgrade... I am using my original M8 with the 1/8000-shutter. And I like it. I can use my Noctilux and my Voigtlander 35mm 1.2 in bright daylight. I also use the Luigi halfcase, but even without Luigi, I do not mind the shutter-sound. My first guess would be: never touch a running system. So I'd rather also keep the original version than getting the upgrade... How many of you have experienced problems with the old (1/8000) shutter? Falk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share #8 Posted September 10, 2010 I appreciate all the comments to date. I have since received a written description of the costing and service, which varies slightly from the verbal quote I have referred to above. The main variation is what is, and is not covered by warranty. I suspect I may go with the 'upgrade' offer, even though I have been known to use the 1/8000th speed on occassions. The shutter noise is a factor that I am familiar with since I have both the M8 and the M9. The quieter shutter does have value to me in that I like to 'keep shooting' sometimes without being observed. However, the Leica digital cameras, aka. M8/9 are far from the 'stealth' cameras that they have evolved from. not a big issue, but a fact nonetheless. Further opinions are welcome as I ponder my decision over the W/E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 10, 2010 Author Share #9 Posted September 10, 2010 It seems there is a vote for upgrade... I am using my original M8 with the 1/8000-shutter. And I like it. I can use my Noctilux and my Voigtlander 35mm 1.2 in bright daylight. I also use the Luigi halfcase, but even without Luigi, I do not mind the shutter-sound. My first guess would be: never touch a running system. So I'd rather also keep the original version than getting the upgrade... How many of you have experienced problems with the old (1/8000) shutter? Falk I agree with that sentiment Falk, except that in my case the system is NOT running. See my OP. I am faced with a repair. The question is which shutter to choose since I must have a new one, either replace the old 1/8000 or go for the newer 1/4000. A repair on the existing one will not be guaranteed in any way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted September 10, 2010 Share #10 Posted September 10, 2010 Erl I paid to have mine upgraded actually just a couple of months before the M9 announcement. Since then the price has been reduced (or was at one point?) by 30%. My original shutter was not faulty (like many thousands of others it worked fine) but I chose to have the quieter new assembly and was pleased that I did. I guess you will have to do the sums yourself as far as value for money. I don't believe that the camera would resell later for that much more but I think that is not a primary concern for you in a camera that you will keep using for some years. Regarding warranty after your repair as far as I know the whole camera is checked and adjusted to spec as part of the process (you should have the detail on your quote) and you should get 12 months new warranty on the entire camera. You may like to confirm that with CS. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted September 10, 2010 Share #11 Posted September 10, 2010 For the small amount you were quoted, and especially the inclusion of a warranty, for me it would be a no-brainer to take the upgraded shutter. It does puzzle me however that they told you a repair to the old shutter wouldn't be warranteed. I was under the impression that every time Leica does any kind of repair (other than a simple adjustment) service they go over the entire camera ("Bring to proper working order" is what I've seen on invoices) and warranty the whole enchilada for a year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 10, 2010 Share #12 Posted September 10, 2010 Fwiiw, the upgraded shutter is the most silent of all digital M shutters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted September 10, 2010 Share #13 Posted September 10, 2010 John, I upgraded my M8's shutter a couple of years ago because I shoot quite a lot in churches. The upgraded shutter is definitely quieter than the 1/8000th shutter and made church shooting easier but to be honest the quantum leap was when the discreet mode arrived. There are times when I wistfully remember the 1/8000th shutter speed as I use my 50 Summilux asph a lot but since I've acquired a 3-stop ND filter I have no problem shooting wide open on bright days. Of course a ND filter on a UV/IR filter may not appeal to you. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rondeb Posted September 10, 2010 Share #14 Posted September 10, 2010 Another FWIW - my M8.2(with quite shutter) is quieter than my former M8(a little) AND my current M9. There is some difference between bodies as I've compared my M8.2 to other M8.2's and M8's(with quiet shutter) and this thing is silent! -Ron Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
george + Posted September 10, 2010 Share #15 Posted September 10, 2010 I still have the original, November 2006, shutter and it works fine after almost 20k exposures. But if anything happened to this rather delicate precision device then I would not consider "fixing" it. Total replacement (of the shutter) would be the only solution for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobertW Posted September 10, 2010 Share #16 Posted September 10, 2010 The only thing I can add to what's been said, is that subjectively, it appears that I can hand hold with a bit more confidence at slower speeds that before the shutter upgrade. Camera seems to vibrate a bit less on shutter actuation, but perhaps its only a perception difference. I've enjoyed the upgrade. Was it worth it, well that's like asking me if the price of M7 Leica is worth it...versus at Bessa R2A or R3A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted September 11, 2010 Share #17 Posted September 11, 2010 Erl, can you comment of the exact quoted terms regarding warranty with which service carried out (CLA-> one year, whole camera, Shutter repair-> ?, shutter upgrade->1year only shutter?)? I am a bit confused by the general saying of Leica warranting the whole product after going as deep inside as a shutter service (as seen in Mark Norton's excellent tear down). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norm_snyder Posted September 11, 2010 Share #18 Posted September 11, 2010 Do it! I agree--upgraded M8 shutter is quieter than my M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
erl Posted September 11, 2010 Author Share #19 Posted September 11, 2010 Now that I have a written quote, some differences are clear. 1. Repair existing damaged shutter mechanism. - no warranty. 2. Replace with a new 1/8000 shutter. - (verbal) 6 months warranty. 3. Replace with 1/4000 shutter - (verbal) 6 months warranty. Note: The repair quote is given by a newly appointed (authorized) service provider in Melbourne Australia. My understanding is that it is not a Leica warranty but one given by the service provider. My understanding is that Leica (Solms) give a 12 months warranty on this sort of work which includes the whole camera. In my case the service people do a full CLA on the camera at the time of repair, but with the difference of being cheaper (I believe) and only 6 months warranty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted September 11, 2010 Share #20 Posted September 11, 2010 Erl I recommend that you send directly to Solms. In my opinion the new 12 months on complete camera adjusted to specifications is well worth it. I would add that I don't believe that the local repairer can perform repairs and not provide any warranty under our law in any case. I think that there may be some misunderstanding there Will you please PM me the deatils on this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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