Advice about R8 + 35-70

[italy74]

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Hi guys

in the meanwhile, I'm always looking for an used R8 at a reasonable price. Not so far from my town there's a shop that sells both an R8 and a 35-70 F/4 Rom which looks quite new and interesting. They are also available for a trade with my manual Nikon gear.

Now, the price wouldn't be THAT favourable compared to others, however both the closeness, the apparent goodness of what he proposes and the availability to try an arrangement would make me want to agree. Although not otherwise much happy, this time the possibility to free a bit my closet is a tickling task.

Now, should I take the 35-70 which would come at "zero" cost (meaning I have no more money to pay, just giving back part of my gear) or should I keep part of my gear and buy a not-so recent Summicron 90? I admit I'd like to find a lens made at least in the '90s, if not a rom. Most of what I find around are very good lenses but often 30 yrs older if no more. Since I have too a few Nikon lenses so old (but I have a certain knowledge of what is valuable and what is not) even a lens of the '80s wouldn't be that bad but I honestly feel unsure because of my ignorance in this respect.

However with the 35-70 (I know it's an OUTSTANDING Leica zoom lens, optically speaking) I'd go for a 90 F/2 and a 50 F/2. Being an event-purpose camera, I shouldn't need anything else, especially if shooting mostly b/w at high iso.

Strange enough, while I casually stumbled in that 35-70 very new, all the other lenses around either are very old or extremely expensive even when they aren't that young.

The newest 90 I found is made in 1987 and probably I'll stick with that asap.

I start from the assumption that even with Nikon I rarely shoot anyone with the 28 (used mostly for landscapes) while my most used range is from 35 (50) to 105. Now, someone once told me to get an Elmarit 90 and I'd really like to but I really need that extra stop (while I don't need the F/1.4 which means only extra cost, extra weight and lesser performance wide open, at least MTF wise) which can make me able to take the picture in dim light. I even spotted an Elmarit-R 135 (3524xxx) which looks really good but for what I see people don't seem very enthusiast about it. Honestly, I'd rather take it and then wait for a newer 90 but I'm still unsure.

Any suggestion will be welcome, thanks in advance

[topoxforddoc]

Dino,

 

Hi! Why are you selling your Nikon gear? Is it because you don't like it or is this an active decision to go for Leica glass?

The R8 and R lenses are great. The R glass is relatively under valued compared to the M lenses, but almost all of the R lenses are very good if not truly excellent performers. Your focal range is 35-105 and you want low light capability (without a tripod or flash, I presume). If that's the case, why not look at a M body and M glass?

I'm a great fan of the R8 and R9, which I use with 2 DMRs. But for the focal lengths you like, I much prefer the M. The lack of mirror in the M cameras makes hand held low light exposures much easier. I can routinely hand hold my M down to 1/15th sec, but not my R, due to the mirror slap.

If you want the R8, then I would get the 50/2R and the 80/1.4R (fabulous portrait lens). If you go down the M route, then the 50/2M and either the 75/1.4 or 90/2 would be my picks. If you're on a budget, 50/2M and older 90/2M - if you've got loads of cash, then the 50/1.4 asph and 90/2 asph would be my picks for you.

I hope that helps.

[earleygallery]

I pretty much agree with Charlie.

 

Leica glass is famous for being excellent at the widest apertures, not ent always the case for other makes. The 35/70 is a good lens but its f4 maximum and no matter what anyone says, a good prime will beat a good zoom. The earlier 35 Summicron R is a legendary Mandler lens, add a 50 Summicron and a 90 Elmarit and you've got a great kit at relatively low cost. The 135 is also a fine lens, I think it's just a focal lenght that went out of favour when zooms became the vogue. There's no bad Leica lens basically!

 

You could always buy the kit and sell the zoom lens, then look for some good primes. Or go down the M route, but of course the M style of shooting doesn't suit everyone, some simply prefer an SLR viewfinder.

[italy74]

Hi guys and thanks for your replies

Maybe I didn't stress too much the reason of my (partial) switch.

I still have other AF lenses and bodies (F6 / D700) that I use and that I wouldn't sell. I just try to find the best tool for the purpose herebelow explained.

 

Lately I'm working a lot with film and manual focusing in dim light. It often happen I need a spot / selective metering which the FM3A (nor the Ms afaik) has, while the R8/R9 has a better viewfinder even of F6 (which split prism is nice but just not as good and clear as R8/R9). With the FM3A unfortunately often I can't neither read shooting times which are placed in the bottom (darkest) part of the viewfinder.

 

I wish I could work with Ms but about portability the FM3A would be light enough and about focusing with longer lenses, a SLR should be more accurate, although I definitely agree with the mirror slap issue. Probably the other way would be choosing the 0.8x (?) viewfinder in a M to have a larger subject framing ?

Besides, probably it's also a matter of money - sorry to be blaspheme but I'd probably go for an Ikon if I'd ever get a RF - I'm not a "collector" although I'm very close to, and I try to get the most from the less expense I can.

I'll keep thinking of it, though.

[tobey bilek]

Later Nikon glass like Ai is fairly close to what you get with Leica unless you get into the APO Leica lenses.

 

The 35/70 is just an average Leica lens, nothing special. At 5.6 is is the same as my primes except it has more distortion. The primes have close to zero unlike Nikon..

 

Older Leica lenses are quite good and nothing to fear. They are made better than Nikkors but do require some maintenance.

 

I have the old 90 2.0 Summicron I use for portraits. A fine lens but not as good as the 90 2.0 APO. A big jump there.

 

My advice is to try out what you want to purchase and make duplicate images with the Nikon.

 

The 90 2.8 is quite a good Leica lens. It does go a little soft in the close range. The first version does not, but is not as sharp ar 2.8 so that isthe trade off.

 

A Nikkor 50 1.8 Ai and 105 2.5 Ai or AiS are probably what you need. 85 1.8 are decent and the 1.4 is legendary for full open portrait work. in the 2.8 to 4.0 range, the 1.8 is a better lens.

 

To really see a decent jump in quality, you need to latest version 50 1.4, 90 2.0 APO, 100 2.8 APO. This will blow away Nikkor primes. The other lenses will not give the quantum leap these will. You will not get them for even trade either.

[topoxforddoc]

Dino,

 

Are you planning to shoot only B&W film in low light or colour? If it's B&W, you will often get +/- 2 stops out of monochrome film. I shoot regularly in low light (night street, music gigs, theatre etc). In B&W, I don't worry at all about spot metering, I only worry about how the light is cast on the subject. It would be different if I were shooting colour slide film, as you really would need spot metering.

 

On the RF front, I would buy a M3 in your situation as it has a 0.92x magnification. It has the best VF of ANY RF camera for 50/90 lens focal lengths. That has no metering at all.

 

Best wishes,

[italy74]

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Ciao Charlie

Most of the work I'll do will be with B/W and I'm aware about the dynamic range of this kind of film, however my subjects are often enlightened by spotlights or backlit and FM3A not always handles them correctly (I have to improve my light correction guesses as well) Besides, measuring the right (and most) light on subject face, I should be able to get a more better shooting time or decide if giving it more depth of field to the subject. In general, it's a nice option to have in strong contrast situations.

[italy74]

One of the things I have to mind is the fact I wear glasses and usually it's said that viewfinders with less magnification are recommended for this purpose, while for longer focal lenghts usually you should use more magnification. This is another point in favour of the R8 whose viewfinder I find excellent.

Trying to configure a new M7 would result in a 4000+ € expense which just doesn't fit my budget. It's really not easy - given my (growing but not yet consolidated) experience to decide if the time advantage of a mirrorless RF would equal the better framing at longer focal lenghts given by a SLR.

Thanks though.

[italy74]

Another question... although I think to use it 90/95% in available light, which pocketable flash could be safe to use with R8 for occasional fill-in purposes ? I see R8 talks about SCA flashes but I'm not much expert of them. On the Metz website they propose the 54 MZi but it's even too big for my needs. With the FM3A I found an old Nikon unit the SB-22s which fitted very well the bill. What would you suggest ?

Many thanks in advance.

[masjah]

Another question... although I think to use it 90/95% in available light, which pocketable flash could be safe to use with R8 for occasional fill-in purposes ? I see R8 talks about SCA flashes but I'm not much expert of them. On the Metz website they propose the 54 MZi but it's even too big for my needs. With the FM3A I found an old Nikon unit the SB-22s which fitted very well the bill. What would you suggest ?

Many thanks in advance.

 

A second-hand Leica SF20 is very reasonably priced indeed. (You don't need the additional features of the later SF24D with the R8.)

[italy74]

Thanks John, I'll be looking for it

[masjah]

Thanks John, I'll be looking for it

 

Dino, it's generally thought that the SF20 was made for Leica by Metz. I've got the SF20 and the MZ54. The SF20 is perfect for when, as you say, you just want to slip something in your pocket, but, of course, it can't compare with the big feller, which is superb (very powerful and with a tilt and zoom head).

[italy74]

Ciao John

yes, I guessed it, I remember there was one very similar for Nikon as well. It's exactly what I need. Well, a tilting head would have been better but I don't complain here, I exactly appreciate the slimness and pocketability of such unit and that's what I'm looking for.

I spotted one at a reasonable price in Genoa, I'm waiting to get the R8 (hopefully on Sept. 18th) then everything will come accordingly.

I'm also waiting in these minutes to know where to make the first money transfer Leica-related since the first lens I don't want to lose is a 90 F/2 of 1987 which looks in great shape.