Going to buy my 1st Leica, in need of advice please :)

[Angeloz]

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Hello everyone,

 

This is my first (of many I hope) post on the Leica forums, I've been interested in photography for about 2 years now and have developed some sort of passion for it.

My first camera was a Canon 450D, at the time I really liked it... not so much now. I have replaced it with an old AV1 Canon 35mm film camera, which I really like ...

 

Anyway, enough introduction! I'm not really familiar with the Leica systems, the country where I live (Lebanon) doesn't have a Leica store and you'd be lucky enough to even see one. (I've never seen one)... I'm moving to the UK in September to study and I would like to further develop my knowledge and practice in photography.

So.

 

What do you guys think? First of all, should I opt for a Leica? Personally I think I should, I know its a big investment and I do not take that for granted, but really, the quality looks superb and I'd love that...

 

And if so, which Leica should I get? I can spend about 3500 USD (thats about 2300 GBP)... I'm really still very confused... they all look marvelous. The MP sounds awesome and so does the M9. And then I read some more and figure there's the M8 thats awesome as well, but I can't really tell the difference between it and the M9.

 

Anyway, just. Tell me what you think, honestly, don't go easy on me...

Your comments will shape my decision on whether or not I should buy a Leica, and if so, which.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Peace.

[zipper]

Hi Angeloz, I think you have to decide wether you want to shoot digital or film - you mentioned the MP . I would guess digital from you previous experience you can use either. Think about possibly an X1, or if you want to build up system, a pre-owned M8 and spend the balance on a used 35mm Summichron ASPH. The other thing I would say is only buy an M8 from a recognised Leica dealer in the UK with a proper guarantee. If you are going to be studying in London, you will have an excellent choice of Leica specialists to visit. welcome to the forum!

[AbbeyFoto]

Angeloz

 

Is the budget (2300 GBP) to cover camera and lens or just camera?

 

Chris

[Angeloz]

Hi Angeloz, I think you have to decide wether you want to shoot digital or film - you mentioned the MP . I would guess digital from you previous experience you can use either. Think about possibly an X1, or if you want to build up system, a pre-owned M8 and spend the balance on a used 35mm Summichron ASPH. The other thing I would say is only buy an M8 from a recognised Leica dealer in the UK with a proper guarantee. If you are going to be studying in London, you will have an excellent choice of Leica specialists to visit. welcome to the forum!

 

Hey! Well thanks for taking the time to reply Zipper, at the moment I would really like to shoot film and that's what brought me here... I just realized though that Leica offers a digital path, so I was wondering how they compete with Canon/Nikon in that area? I don't know if its a smart move to opt for 35mm in the digital age... I guess you're right though, I need to make up my mind.

 

You talk about the "X1 if I want to build up system", what do you mean by that? And you suggest the M8 as well, mind telling me why?

 

Thanks a lot for taking the time to reply and making me feel welcomed to the forums!

 

Peace.

[Angeloz]

Angeloz

 

Is the budget (2300 GBP) to cover camera and lens or just camera?

 

Chris

 

Hey Chris,

 

Well, I haven't decided yet... I guess it all depends on what camera I chose.

[bill]

Welcome. Can you help us to help you by telling us more about the sort of photography you do, or would like to do in future?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[mooky]

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Welcome, if the budget is around 2300 GBP you'll be in the range of a used film M body and a newish lens, maybe two. A good focal length to start with would be a 35m or 50mm - unless you already have a preference.

 

As mentioned already, deciding for a film or digital body will have the biggest influence on your pocket book and the amount of money left for your lens choice. In the long run, a more recent film M body may retain it's value over an M8. (remember, the M8's crop factor)

 

Of course, they both offer advantages and that's a personal choice based on what you're after image-wise, and with film there will be scanning/printing etc, compared to digital. Take your time, check one out when you are settled in and see if it's for you. But they are great image taking tools that can really open your creativity. Good luck!

[Angeloz]

Welcome. Can you help us to help you by telling us more about the sort of photography you do, or would like to do in future?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Hi!

 

Sure I can ... in a way.

 

I would like of course, like every other beginner, start off with street photography since its the most accessible. I would really love to work on nudes as well.

Ultimately though, I would like to work on abstract and experimental photos, but in order to do so I think I need a hell of a lot more knowledge and experience than what I have now.

I like 35mm, it feels great, but I don't know if its safe to opt for film when digital is conquering every inch of the globe. It helps that I will be studying filmmaking I guess... So images and composition should be part of my daily life.

 

I'd love to tell you I want a camera that captures the 'soul' of the moment, but I guess that's up to me. I want colors, movement and sharpness when needed. Fidelity.

 

I don't know if this makes any sense to you...

 

Thanks for reaching out,

 

Peace.

[pop]

This is a bit of seemingly dated advice by a person from the analog ages.

 

You have some well-formulated plans for your future. Even knowing that plans change over time, you plan on developing and growing.

 

With that in mind, shooting on film has an advantage which making digital images lack: with a minimum of organisation and overhead you can document your history and development. All it takes is a bit of honesty. Simply cut your films, place them into sleeves for archival and place those in folders. Store each film you ever made, in the order you finished them. Take care to note at least the date for each film on the sleeve.

 

Believe me. That's very easy to do with film. It's utterly difficult to do with digital images.

 

Whenever you will doubt your progress and personal development (and you will), your folders will be sitting there and waiting for you to check your works of one or several years or mere weeks ago.

[01af]

I have replaced it with an old Canon AV-1 35-mm film camera which I really like ...

You actually like that camera!? Oops—it's one of the worst (if not the worst) and least desirable cameras Canon ever built. Just compare it to the marvellous EF or the old F-1 ... well, even the entry-level AE-1 and AT-1 are far better than the crappy AV-1, and the old and cheap but really nice FTb even more so.

[microview]

When you get to London go straight to Aperture, a few metres from the British Museum. Have bought three M cameras there and bought and sold several lenses. Friendly shop; constantly updated web. Leica - Aperture uk

For new Leica: RG Lewis (poor website in terms of updating; but dealing with Len is enjoyable, provided he understands you are serious). Not far from Aperture.....

[Angeloz]

You actually like that camera!? Oops—it's one of the worst (if not the worst) and least desirable cameras Canon ever built. Just compare it to the marvellous EF or the old F-1 ... well, even the entry-level AE-1 and AT-1 are far better than the crappy AV-1, and the old and cheap but really nice FTb even more so.

 

Oops ! My bad, I meant the Canon A-1! Not AV-1!

 

Will edit, again, many apologies!

 

Edit 1: Looks like I can't edit my initial post.

[earleygallery]

You need to decide film or digital. Let's assume you want to stick with film, then the decision is SLR or rangefinder.

 

The Leica R system is excellent value now, you could buy an R8 and a few lenses for your budget.

 

If you want to go down the rangefinder route you could buy an M6 and lens or an M2, light meter and couple of lenses if you shop carefully.

 

Lots of choices!

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Angeloz,

 

Welcome.

 

In order to decide if a Leica M whether film or digital is appropriate for you (They are for most of the people who write on this Forum) it is important to understand certain things about the system:

 

Whether pencils on paper, burins engraving on the hard applied surface of a lithographic stone or film or digital sensor in a camera these are all simply image capture mechanisms.

 

Leica M's also include lens focus verification mechanisms. Different in manner of operation but equivalent in purpose to your Canon.

 

These image capture mechanisms in terms of cameras are in a state of developmental flux. Film is pretty much going and digital is pretty much replacing it.

 

This is one of the strong points of the Leica M.

 

 

Most everything beyond the image capture box - The M whether analog or digital - is interchanga

[JWW]

For your budget, if you think you want to start with film, you can buy an older meterless M2 or M3 or a metered M6 or maybe M7 together with either a version of 35mm Summicron or a 50 Summicron and get started. If later, you want to go digital with a M9, then the Summicrons will be compatible.

[lars_bergquist]

Shooting a Leica M is utterly different from using a SLR. You are not looking into a box to see if you can find a picture there. Instead, you see the picture before you. Only then do you raise the camera to your eye, focus, adjust composition, and fire. The picture is not in a box, you see it through a window. It is a completely different attitude.

 

Focusing technique will take some learning too. The Leica rangefinder is extremely accurate and quite fast, in light that would drive most AF systems up a wall. But you must master it. You are in command. It is you, not an electronic imp inside the box, that makes and takes the picture.

 

Considering this, your first priority should be a good 35mm lens. That is a pretty safe investment. I use some fairly old Leica M lenses with good satisfaction, and used prices are good. A Summicron ASPH would be a good choice. Its predecessor, the version 4 "non-ASPH" Summicron is also good, especially for action work. Summiluxes are sexy, but unnecessary -- you will mostly shoot at 5.6 or even 8 ("F:8 and be there" was the old slogan). A reasonable, used M6 would be a good starter body while you gather experience and money for a digital successor. But that, and not another lens, should be the next item on your agenda. Learning the ropes is all. I wish you success.

 

The old man from the Age of the Leica IIIa

[Angeloz]

For your budget, if you think you want to start with film, you can buy an older meterless M2 or M3 or a metered M6 or maybe M7 together with either a version of 35mm Summicron or a 50 Summicron and get started. If later, you want to go digital with a M9, then the Summicrons will be compatible.

 

Hello,

 

Thanks for taking the time to post a reply, it's much appreciated .

Would you mind telling me whether its important to learn to work w filithout a meter or not?

I mean, not having a meter built in changes everything, taking a picture will take twice the time... Isn't it a kind of burden?

 

Also, you said in your post that "for my budget I should start with film", how would you qualify my budget? and why film?

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Peace.

[jaapv]

Working with a separate meter is of an advantage, as it will teach you to "read the light" Don't forget the built-in meter of a camera is just a dumb automaton. Trying to control that with exposure compensation etc. is actually slower than using a handheld meter and you brain. Fortunately even metered M cameras up to and including the M9 work as well or better in manual mode.

[lars_bergquist]

My reason to recommend a metered camera is that primarily, you have to master the Leica-style visualisation--focusing--framing workflow. Adding a hand meter to that process would hamper you. Mind you, I do seldom go out without a hand meter, but this is for tricky lighting -- I use it exclusively for incident light. And for action photography, the built-in meter is normally adequate. After all, you decide what to meter with the semi-spot metering of the M.

 

With a limited budget, it is sensible to give first priority to a really good lens. So you want a used body. The M8 is not a suitable buy for you, as its cropped sensor changes focal lengths, from 35 to 47mm for instance. And the market in used M9 cameras -- well, it's non-existing really. Remains, a M6 or M6TTL, or, theoretically, a M7 or MP.

 

The old man from the Upper Paleolithic

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[}{B]

On your budget I would consider an M6 in Mint or Mint minus condition at around the £1000 mark. If your photographic style is for standard to wide angle lenses I would consider getting a used, but in mint condition, Leica 50mm Elmar M collapsible. They can be had for around £600 and if you don't need a faster aperture than F2.8 then in my opinion they represent the best value for money of any of the used modern Leica 50mm lenses.

 

To complement this you could think about buying a new 28mm or 35mm Voigtlander lens which together with the camera body and 50mm lens would come well within your budget. Voigtlander have a F1.4 35mm lens in their range which would give you the flexibilty of having a faster lens available for low light work.

 

Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 VM Nokton Classic | Robert White Photographic Ltd

 

 

Just some thoughts.