New X1

[Dan States]

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,

 

Leica does not have customers, but fans, (and so does apple). That's why constructively criticizing products or the company often is not well received in this forum.

 

Well, DUH! Gee, I can't imagine why people on a LEICA forum get tired of constant harping. The worst is from the "I tried one in the store" crowd, followed by the "let me flog MY favorite brand" bunch.

 

Regarding how much they cost...folks, Leica's are not about VALUE....save that crap for your next trip to Walmart. If Leica was so damned greedy you'd think they'd be making money over the years...They barely survive....

 

Frankly I can't imaging WHY someone would spend so much energy telling other people how lousy their choices are...if you don't LIKE the X1 don't BUY one....that's the only kind of constructive criticism that matters in a free market.

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[jsrockit]

Yeah DS, if I don't like something, I sure as hell don't go to a forum about that thing and bitch about it. It's just weird to me.

[Ecaton]

Well, DUH! Gee, I can't imagine why people on a LEICA forum get tired of constant harping. The worst is from the "I tried one in the store" crowd, followed by the "let me flog MY favorite brand" bunch.

 

Regarding how much they cost...folks, Leica's are not about VALUE....save that crap for your next trip to Walmart. If Leica was so damned greedy you'd think they'd be making money over the years...They barely survive....

 

Frankly I can't imaging WHY someone would spend so much energy telling other people how lousy their choices are...if you don't LIKE the X1 don't BUY one....that's the only kind of constructive criticism that matters in a free market.

 

Re Walmart, cheap doesn't mean value, it often times turns out to be expensive.

 

Leica needs customer feedback. They came close to produce to an excellent compact large sensor camera. Some of the shortcomings and flaws the camera has could have been avoided. Sigma's DPs have much better mf/zf solutions. The G line, or more recently NEX show that fast AF and compact are not foes. Ricoh sets the standard for UI and build quality. And why is there no integrated ovf for a single focal length camera possible? Insted of a pop up flash, a pop up ovf would have been so much more useful and smart.

[andym911]

Paul (original poster)

 

I agree with all you say about the X1 (can't comment on DLux 4)...maybe not as 'emotional' but I think you have hit the nail on the head..

 

Follow your instinct

 

Andy

[msbel]

Let's say for a moment the X1 is targeted toward Leica M/R users for better or for worse, not the general pro-am market.

 

Why is it relevant to me to a dated jaded M/R user for both film and digital? I own an X1.

 

This is not a superiority complex. It could be described actually as antithetical to progress in the category.

 

1 - Leica invests in glass first at the expense of other features that could be helpful.

2 - Fixed focal lengths are normal. Zooms confuse me.

3 - Top plate manual controls are the only way I know how to shoot.

4 - Manual focus has been a way of life, so I welcome any type of AF at times.

5 - Simplicity and elegance in design/menu. It matters to me. Vain as it is.

6 - Forced patience to set up. That means I lose shots more often than not.

 

Now let's say Leica was targeting the general pro-am market looking for a smaller quality IQ solution with features comparable to their larger DLSR's.

 

The X1 would and should be dead in the water.

 

$2000 is ridiculous to rationalize for buyers in that market for the limitations and flubbed quality control on the X1.

 

I would kindly urge the original poster to get a tripod, take a shot with contrast, interesting light, depth of field, and in the style you like to shoot on a daily basis.

 

Not an image of a ruler or droll object in bright light made for judging pixel peeping. Set your zooms to 35mm focal length on those cameras that only have zooms.

 

Shoot the exact same image with your cameras.

 

PRINT THEM with a calibrated monitor on good paper on a decent inkjet printer. Mark each one on the back with the camera's initials.

 

Shuffle them eyes closed face up without looking. Lay them out. Pick the one you like best. Stay with that camera.

 

If you post most of your images on the Web, you don't need the X1.

 

If you are judging IQ by web images of yours, reviews and other posters, IMO, you won't get the real story.

 

I should drink my own Kool-Aid!!

[h00ligan]

In general I agree with you David although I think you put it little over the top.

 

But as far as constructive criticism goes, on this forum alone the complaints about the AF and build quality are posted about 15.000 times. Posting the same over and over again turns into a broken record without adding any value.

 

If the goal is to make manufacturers take notice it would be much more effective to write directly to Leica or their country distributor instead of hoping they read forums like this.

 

This could be simply remedied by the moderators creating a sticky called x1 issues (autofocus, skin ailment, batter door, etc) and rolling existing threads into it. If the sticky was at the top new peole wouldn't have to search, it would be obvious.

[earleygallery]

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Let me save you the wait for a response.

 

Dear Mr Peabody,

 

Thank you for your letter dated.... regarding your X1. I'm sorry to hear that you are unhappy with some aspects of it.

 

Yours truly

Mr Vogler

 

p.s. The X1 and Dlux4 are indeed made by different companies!

[Guest badbob]

I'm glad I didn't get the same X1 that the original person here got. I've owned "really fine" items like a Rolex President, Leica 'M' cameras, Stax electrostatic 'phones, etc.

 

But when I took the X1 out of the box, expecting something less than marvelous, was I ever surprised. It looked and felt like one of the nicest deluxe luxury items I've ever bought.

 

If I did get the same camera as the original person here, then maybe I was really sleepy or something. Oops - wait - I just took the X1 out again, and ..... yes, it's still a gorgeous little camera, well worth the two grand I paid for it.

 

I guess I must be one of those spoiled brats who don't appreciate cost cutting and stuff like that.

 

Another problem the original person will experience with the X1 is the anonymity - people just won't recognize the expensiveness and exclusivity of the X1 when carried around - it looks like a compact camera from 8 feet away.

[andym911]

why oh why such lack of sympathy with the OP?

 

beats me...it really does.

the guy has valid points right?

 

but everyone 'stones' his criticism/feelings to the point of calling him a tosser!

I think he is right.

andy

[RichardM8]

Another problem the original person will experience with the X1 is the anonymity - people just won't recognize the expensiveness and exclusivity of the X1 when carried around - it looks like a compact camera from 8 feet away.

 

Well that's not my experience during the first 4 weeks I have mine. The amount of attention it gets is amazing. I have the brown leather case and even hanging from my shoulder I've had 5 of 6 complete strangers coming up to me asking 'Is that a real Leica?' followed by 'Can I have a look?'... And out of its case it is the same; 'That is a beautiful camera, a Leica is it?' and 'Is it digital?' and more along those lines...

 

Certainly not of any value but it's included in the price...

 

So if you're socially isolated, get one.

[h00ligan]

Some of the posts and user ridiculousness is really getting under my skin re: x1. To some people two grand is a lot of money. I'm probably halfway between the two camps, but I'm getting tired of the ridiculing from both sides. If you're rich, great, we get it. If you aren't and expected more value, we get it. Good gracious. Both camps are overzealous.

 

As an aside leica makes some great stuff, the user base seems quite well educated..it does however also seem lacking in tact in many situations. I've seen some fantastic shots with the dl4/lx3- but it's not a real leica:rolleyes:. I wish we could get back on the topic of photography...maybe I should leave for the photo forum, the rest is starting to feel like dpreview but with more snobs. That's not what helps me get better, or really anyone else.

 

Bottom line. Leica screwed up the x1. The camera shouldn't have battery door issues, skin peeling, etc..,,it costs two grand. Even if you are excreting diamonds that's ridiculous, as you can buy a $100 camera at walmart that doesn't have the issues. That's not about value, it's about leica not being a third world product. Stop defending the mistakes, its ridiculous. Paying for quality is one thing...I drive nice car, it cost a fair amount..if my leather interior came off, I'd rather have a Honda.

 

To the other side, you are buying hand assembled goods from a small company, give them more than a bit to work things out.

 

Sheesh, I feel like I need go give time outs and manner lessons.

 

The comment about stroking the leather was completely ridiculous, to point out one in particular. Get over the attitude. It's a reasonable expectation to have a camera that works at two grand and doesn't disintegrate.

[RichardM8]

Bad day Edward?...

 

 

 

BTW, I don't even dare to read what must have been written when the M8 came out the infrared problem (I believe?..) Bombing squats at the gates of Solms?...

[peapodesque]

Hooligan,,thats a riot I totally concur and as the OP who started all this I am more than a little tickled.Actually I have learned some good things,,,and points to try ,but thanks to all who realized that i know the lens is glass ,,,for goodness sake,a and also for suggestions,,I at any rate am here to learn ,.,,I am willing to bet anyand all here a hundred dollars that there will be x2 ,,,and i am even willing to bet fifty dollars there will be three(why only fifty) I think they are starting to hit their stride and things will start coming out quicker with fixes,,,(like wheres the bloody x1 firmware update)

let me tell you why such a reaction to the materials feel of the thing I said in the initial post,.I almost purchased the first violin that Antonio Stradivarius put his own personal label in 1699, however despite its beauty and sweet sd. 250000,,was too much ! Leica Glass is like a strad,,,anyhow...I have been privliged to play and have some of the finest instruments in the world ,so I might be a little more sensitive about this than most.So,sorry to those I offended,,,Also ,the X! is like a very beautiful woman,,,naked,,,.There is sense of vulnerability about her. SO,,,I purchased a luigi with handle ,viewfinder holder ,tripod screw,,.and now she is properly dressed,and I am more relaxed,,,the metal just felt soft ,Even steve Huff said that in his review ,The curious thing with the million dollar fiddles is that they dont all sound that great ,,,and behind a screen,,,the "experts" cant always tell whose playing what. analogous to,,

I am going to take a picture of my chinese 2006 strad copy in b/w and color with dlux4 ,and the x1 ,,,at exactly the same setting...and post them and see how many can identify which is which.at auto i think,,unless someone has a better idea,,and you can see what 7500 dollars gets in China ,a near perfect replica of a Stradivarius,,antiquing,etc,,,.(and it sounds pretty good too)If you gave ansel adams a brownie I think he would take great shots,,,which is just a way of saying yes mr hooligan,,,people act pretty silly sometimes in these forums,,me included.

[tom0511]

Some of the posts and user ridiculousness is really getting under my skin re: x1. To some people two grand is a lot of money. I'm probably halfway between the two camps, but I'm getting tired of the ridiculing from both sides. If you're rich, great, we get it. If you aren't and expected more value, we get it. Good gracious. Both camps are overzealous.

 

As an aside leica makes some great stuff, the user base seems quite well educated..it does however also seem lacking in tact in many situations. I've seen some fantastic shots with the dl4/lx3- but it's not a real leica:rolleyes:. I wish we could get back on the topic of photography...maybe I should leave for the photo forum, the rest is starting to feel like dpreview but with more snobs. That's not what helps me get better, or really anyone else.

 

Bottom line. Leica screwed up the x1. The camera shouldn't have battery door issues, skin peeling, etc..,,it costs two grand. Even if you are excreting diamonds that's ridiculous, as you can buy a $100 camera at walmart that doesn't have the issues. That's not about value, it's about leica not being a third world product. Stop defending the mistakes, its ridiculous. Paying for quality is one thing...I drive nice car, it cost a fair amount..if my leather interior came off, I'd rather have a Honda.

 

To the other side, you are buying hand assembled goods from a small company, give them more than a bit to work things out.

 

Sheesh, I feel like I need go give time outs and manner lessons.

 

The comment about stroking the leather was completely ridiculous, to point out one in particular. Get over the attitude. It's a reasonable expectation to have a camera that works at two grand and doesn't disintegrate.

 

Peeling skin (my x1 hasnt so far) and the so called battery door issue (my x1 doesnt have one) arent great, but still the x1 for me is the compact camera with the best IQ of all, with a good sensor and a good lens, with 35mm which I really do like (had a dp1 and dp2 before and for my taste 35mm in the middle of 28 and 40 is just right for me).

It has the best user interface for my taste (not only the wheels but also the menues and buttons).

The AF is slow (what I dont like)- I hope and believe it will be improved a little with firmware - but it will not make it an action camera.

So IMO Leica did not screw up the x1. It can be improved but I wouldnt want to give it away now that I have used it for some time.

And back to the OP: I dont really care at all how the in camera vivid mode turns out, thats really a totally minor point IMO. Same with the "plastic lens cap" My 50/1.4asph also has a plastic lenscap - so what?

 

Maybe its also about the question if you buy a Leica a luxury product (maybe the x1 doesnt fulfil this expectation) or if you buy it as a camera for taking images (which it does pretty good IMO)

[RichardM8]

I am going to take a picture of my chinese 2006 strad copy in b/w and color with dlux4 ,and the x1 ,,,at exactly the same setting...and post them and see how many can identify which is which.at auto i think,

 

That is a massive block of text peapodesque. An occasional blank line helps readability big time.

 

I you're going to do this comparison pls post the images full size. I think putting both cams on the same - or very close - manual settings would be a good idea. Owning an LX3 myself, I think I can tell with one eye closed, 3 meters from my screen...

 

Addition: without masking post pocessing of course...

[earleygallery]

I don't have an X1 and nor do I plan on buying one - and not because of peeling leatherette or wonky battery doors.

 

The OP's letter is poorly written and ultimately has no point to it - what does he expect the recipient to do?

[h00ligan]

Bad day Edward?...

 

 

 

BTW, I don't even dare to read what must have been written when the M8 came out the infrared problem (I believe?..) Bombing squats at the gates of Solms?...

 

 

LOL, yah I guess I was already a bit fed up by last night - sorry. Still I think the points stand on their own, everyone is getting so worked up attacking or defending - while like politics the answer is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

X1 has great IQ - it also has problems that shouldn't be present in a camera of it's price and supposed class.

 

@Peapod - You should do that test for yourself. In good light without trying to attain shallow dof and resizing - probably not a ton of difference. The x1 allows for some amazing crops due to the detail it captures, it's also a monster in low light - and for bigger prints.

[bad robot]

Let's say for a moment the X1 is targeted toward Leica M/R users for better or for worse, not the general pro-am market.

 

Why is it relevant to me to a dated jaded M/R user for both film and digital? I own an X1.

 

This is not a superiority complex. It could be described actually as antithetical to progress in the category.

 

1 - Leica invests in glass first at the expense of other features that could be helpful.

2 - Fixed focal lengths are normal. Zooms confuse me.

3 - Top plate manual controls are the only way I know how to shoot.

4 - Manual focus has been a way of life, so I welcome any type of AF at times.

5 - Simplicity and elegance in design/menu. It matters to me. Vain as it is.

6 - Forced patience to set up. That means I lose shots more often than not.

 

Now let's say Leica was targeting the general pro-am market looking for a smaller quality IQ solution with features comparable to their larger DLSR's.

 

The X1 would and should be dead in the water.

 

$2000 is ridiculous to rationalize for buyers in that market for the limitations and flubbed quality control on the X1.

 

I would kindly urge the original poster to get a tripod, take a shot with contrast, interesting light, depth of field, and in the style you like to shoot on a daily basis.

 

Not an image of a ruler or droll object in bright light made for judging pixel peeping. Set your zooms to 35mm focal length on those cameras that only have zooms.

 

Shoot the exact same image with your cameras.

 

PRINT THEM with a calibrated monitor on good paper on a decent inkjet printer. Mark each one on the back with the camera's initials.

 

Shuffle them eyes closed face up without looking. Lay them out. Pick the one you like best. Stay with that camera.

 

If you post most of your images on the Web, you don't need the X1.

 

If you are judging IQ by web images of yours, reviews and other posters, IMO, you won't get the real story.

 

I should drink my own Kool-Aid!!

 

I agree, until I printed out a few pictures (greyscale through LR) with my HP B9185 printer on Harman matte FB paper with the correct ICC profiles installed I was not sure about the amazing IQ. This is the only way to judge a camera, rather than with a PC screen. The last picture I printed, framed and under glass, I was asked if it was in fact a 35mm film developed in the old fashion way!

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[Guest Chris M]

Had Mr. Peabody done a thorough [search and investigation] on the X1 prior to buying it and went to the store to massage the X1 before buying it, this thread would not be happening, period! At the cost of $2,000.00 plus tax here in the USA, I would think that most people would do whats mentioned above. Shame on Mr. Peabody for coming into this forum and complaining after the fact, with out (full knowledge) of the X1 abilities and short comings untill after the fact ie; the purchase of one. I myself, weather a millionaire or an average joe, would never drop 2 grand on (anything) without doing the above.

 

I also suspect Mr. Peabody has had very little? or know experience? with the leica brands or range finder cameras and there limitations, had he, I believe that he would have had a better understanding about the X1 and its limitations. This is just my opinion about the waste of time spent on a thread subject that has been (debated adnosium). Like I said, their is more than enough info here on this forum too assist a prospective buyer into making a (CONFIDENT) decision too purchase this fantastic camera.

 

cm

[jsrockit]

I spotted Lady Gaga in NYC with a diamond encrusted, gold-plated X1 taking photos of man made waterfalls.