New X1

[ezc203]

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Also, you don't have to edit EACH photo from the X1 in Lightroom, after you figure out something that works, save it as a profile and import all your X1 files through it.

 

That's what I do, and cuts my workload by 90%.

[holmes]

Thanks to all who pointed out the lens is GLASS, with the barrel being plastic. I was having a hard time trying to work around that coming from Leica. Maybe a Holga? OK that's settled, and for the bloke from New Zealand, the banana split was delicious. I have no opportunity to actually play touchy feely as we have no camera stores in a city of 100,000 pop with a university to boot. Plus a NASA facility and White Sands Missile Range. Go figure that.

[tom0511]

You haven't handled any Sigma DP yet, have you. DP1 and DP2 are all metal.

 

Have used both and I dont see how the dp are any more solid than the x1.

The only thing I really would like to have impressed are the dials which I find to loose.

[Ecaton]

Have used both and I dont see how the dp are any more solid than the x1.

The only thing I really would like to have impressed are the dials which I find to loose.

 

Didn't say they are more solid. But they are definitely not plastic bodies as it was stated.

[sveinp]

To you that initiated this thread -

Why do you still own the X1 given it is that bad?

Why don't you just sell or throw it away?

Why did you buy the camera in the first place?

Why bother us with your misplaced camera?

I have just sold my DL-4 or "fake Leica" and purchasef a superb real Leica - the X1!!

I have just deceided to get myself a life rather than "living" in this narrowminded tiny "universe" - the Leica Forum.

...and I will take my X1 with me...

[Dan States]

To you that initiated this thread -

Why do you still own the X1 given it is that bad?

Why don't you just sell or throw it away?

Why did you buy the camera in the first place?

Why bother us with your misplaced camera?

I have just sold my DL-4 or "fake Leica" and purchasef a superb real Leica - the X1!!

I have just deceided to get myself a life rather than "living" in this narrowminded tiny "universe" - the Leica Forum.

...and I will take my X1 with me...

 

Why? Because Leica "owners" are the biggest babies in the world. The sense of entitlement is amazing. Boo Hoo, my dreams didn't come true!! If you care about making good pictures the X1 is just fine, but if you like massaging the fine faux leather and talking about how German elves carved your camera out of metal originally meant for the Hindenburg you need to buy an M9....strike that, an M3.

[RichardM8]

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but if you like massaging the fine faux leather and talking about how German elves carved your camera out of metal originally meant for the Hindenburg you need to buy an M9....

 

LOL

 

Although I don't agree with you Dan, this is very funny...

[davidhunternyc]

One thing that I have noticed about forums, in general, is that if you have praise for something, then you are a hero. Conversely, if you have criticism for something, well then, it's all fire and brimstone. I really don't get it. It seems to me that those who offer criticism about things should be taken seriously and addressed seriously by the other forum members. If our criticisms can spur manufacturers into doing better, then wouldn't this benefit all of us? Cameras are not the only goods being plagued by plastic these days, so is everything else. How strange is it that in 2010 the most prominently respected names, Leica and Sennheiser, are being sucked down into the plastic hole. Mercedes and BMW got sucked in years ago. Plastic is ubiquitous. It is whether or not plastic is used judiciously that is the question. So if no one here really has a problem with the plastic in the X1, well then, you won't have a problem when Leica goes into partnership with Playskool.

[RichardM8]

In general I agree with you David although I think you put it little over the top.

 

But as far as constructive criticism goes, on this forum alone the complaints about the AF and build quality are posted about 15.000 times. Posting the same over and over again turns into a broken record without adding any value.

 

If the goal is to make manufacturers take notice it would be much more effective to write directly to Leica or their country distributor instead of hoping they read forums like this.

[sveinp]

x2

[tom0511]

One thing that I have noticed about forums, in general, is that if you have praise for something, then you are a hero. Conversely, if you have criticism for something, well then, it's all fire and brimstone. I really don't get it. It seems to me that those who offer criticism about things should be taken seriously and addressed seriously by the other forum members. If our criticisms can spur manufacturers into doing better, then wouldn't this benefit all of us? Cameras are not the only goods being plagued by plastic these days, so is everything else. How strange is it that in 2010 the most prominently respected names, Leica and Sennheiser, are being sucked down into the plastic hole. Mercedes and BMW got sucked in years ago. Plastic is ubiquitous. It is whether or not plastic is used judiciously that is the question. So if no one here really has a problem with the plastic in the X1, well then, you won't have a problem when Leica goes into partnership with Playskool.

 

I agree that often critics are not taken seriously in forums. Other times critics are taken too serious and produce a wrong overall impression about a product.

I allways wondered why people called the M8 a flawed camera while others including myself just put filters on it and enjoyed the great image quality and simple use of this camera.

 

Today I even stop to read too much in forums since it sometimes makes you aware about "problems" you would have never experienced without reading forums.

In my case it can even lead to have less fun with a camera because you start focusing on its problems too much. Of course it is good to exchange info and help.

 

The other thing is critics are good and important as a feedback for the brands.

However things are the way they are. Most things/products are compromises in some way.

The x1 doesnt feel like a M9. But then again it is lighter, smaller, costs less money (still a lot). Sometimes life is easier to make best use of what we have, instead of wishing and waiting for something better the rest of our life.

And yes, I would like to have a better AF and better display in the x1 but still enjoy to use it a lot.

[mwilliamsphotography]

I also share the pipe dream where I can get the quality of a M9 @ 28% of the retail cost.

 

The X1 probably doesn't cost much more to make than its competitors except maybe for assembly, but the lens elements and assembly (in the plastic barrel) probably cost a lot more ... just like every single lens they make.

 

Seems to me that Leica tends to front load pricing to recover it's R&D costs because it doesn't sell copious quantities of anything, even Point & Shoots ... PLUS they think they can charge a premium no matter what ... so they do, and we pay it. As with anything digital, a little better costs a lot more.

 

 

I'm waiting for a digital Leica CL ... but I'm at an age where I'll probably take that desire to the grave with me. But that would also be true for a 20 year old ... LOL!

 

 

-Marc

[Ecaton]

I also share the pipe dream where I can get the quality of a M9 @ 28% of the retail cost.

 

The X1 probably doesn't cost much more to make than its competitors except maybe for assembly, but the lens elements and assembly (in the plastic barrel) probably cost a lot more ... just like every single lens they make.

 

Seems to me that Leica tends to front load pricing to recover it's R&D costs because it doesn't sell copious quantities of anything, even Point & Shoots ... PLUS they think they can charge a premium no matter what ... so they do, and we pay it. As with anything digital, a little better costs a lot more.

 

 

I'm waiting for a digital Leica CL ... but I'm at an age where I'll probably take that desire to the grave with me. But that would also be true for a 20 year old ... LOL!

 

 

-Marc

 

The Ricoh GXR with 50 and 28mm modules could come close to a digital CL.

[Ecaton]

One thing that I have noticed about forums, in general, is that if you have praise for something, then you are a hero. Conversely, if you have criticism for something, well then, it's all fire and brimstone. I really don't get it. It seems to me that those who offer criticism about things should be taken seriously and addressed seriously by the other forum members. If our criticisms can spur manufacturers into doing better, then wouldn't this benefit all of us? Cameras are not the only goods being plagued by plastic these days, so is everything else. How strange is it that in 2010 the most prominently respected names, Leica and Sennheiser, are being sucked down into the plastic hole. Mercedes and BMW got sucked in years ago. Plastic is ubiquitous. It is whether or not plastic is used judiciously that is the question. So if no one here really has a problem with the plastic in the X1, well then, you won't have a problem when Leica goes into partnership with Playskool.

,

 

Leica does not have customers, but fans, (and so does apple). That's why constructively criticizing products or the company often is not well received in this forum.

[jsrockit]

Well, I sort of agree.

 

The quality of the pics are great, the build quality of the camera is actually very poor.

For $2000 I expect quality. Hey, even the new Sony ($700) is all metal...

 

- Cheap pop-up plastic flash

- Cheap (loose) dials

- Cheap plastic battery door

- Cheap (peeling) plastic wrap

- Cheap plastic lense barrel

 

I owned one, but quickly returned it...!

/c

 

This is so silly. The pop up flash is anything but cheap... it may be the nicest one I've ever seen... despite the actual practical use for it.

 

Plastic does not equal cheap. I've dropped my X1 on concrete and there was no damage to it. Metal would've dented. Plastic just took it.

 

I think people confuse light weight with cheap.

[RichardM8]

The record is ticking over again...

[tom0511]

,

 

Leica does not have customers, but fans, (and so does apple). That's why constructively criticizing products or the company often is not well received in this forum.

 

The problem is that its often hard to find the constructive element in the critics.

 

The other problem I see is that even though Leicas usually offer very good IQ and a simple and intuitive user interface people expect too much IMO. Some think "if I pay that much-than the product better has to be perfect". But no, they are very good in some regards (as mentioned above) but most often also have some problems.

And Leica sells smaller numbers of their cameras- has high R&D cost and manufacters a lot in Germany - so this makes their products price somewhat higher than others.

[aesop]

...the quest for instant gratification continues. Love this thread.

[RichardM8]

Seems to me that Leica tends to front load pricing to recover it's R&D costs because it doesn't sell copious quantities of anything, even Point & Shoots ... PLUS they think they can charge a premium no matter what ... so they do, and we pay it. As with anything digital, a little better costs a lot more.

 

Not with anything digital. With anything... full stop.

 

 

I think that Leica charging fat premiums for their name/status is highly exaggerated. But it's a juicy story along the lines of 'the great scam' that people always seem to like and finds a lot of willing ears.

 

The production cost of an X1 is much higher than from comparable cameras from the big Japanese co's. Leica is a small company that buys and produces parts at much lower numbers, thus higher cost. Production is in small numbers too with quite some handwork involved, thus (much) higher cost. R&D, production and profit has be earned back selling - again - much lower numbers. The math is simple, Leica must price their cameras higher in order to stay in business. Not to make fat profits. But then, this isn't juicy bar talk.

 

I think Canon makes more margin on every single G11 or Rebel than Leica does on the X1.

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[davidhunternyc]

In general I agree with you David although I think you put it little over the top. But as far as constructive criticism goes, on this forum alone the complaints about the AF and build quality are posted about 15.000 times. Posting the same over and over again turns into a broken record without adding any value. If the goal is to make manufacturers take notice it would be much more effective to write directly to Leica or their country distributor instead of hoping they read forums like this.

 

I wonder if Leica does or does not read the X1 threads. I think it would benefit them if they did and somehow I think they do. Yes, the AF complaints have been stated 15,000 times but, perhaps, there is strength in numbers. Leica has to be aware of these complaints both from the threads on this forum and from people writing directly to them. Perhaps it takes complaints from all angles for Leica to sit up and take notice. So if the next Leica camera has improved AF, then the 15,000 complaints will have served a purpose. This is all just speculation, of course, since none of us here know the inner workings of the Leica machine. Broken record, flogging a dead horse, whatever you call, it can make an impact. This year, Sennheiser came out with its new flagship headphone, the HD800. Just as the X1 has superlative IQ, the HD800 is said to set the new standard in sound quality. I took issue, however, with its build quality and took the lead in the critique. To date, the thread has over 43,000 views. Whether or not this will have any influence on Sennheiser's next flagship headphone is anybodies guess. Boy, did I get a flogging in the headphone forums though. In the end, if you believe in your cause, and you approach it from a measured and intelligent point of view, I say, go for it. I think it takes courage to go against the grain.