Guest jarski Posted June 30, 2010 Share #21 Posted June 30, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) good news from Leica, especially these times. wonder how long other possible dRF makers choose to stay aside and watch Leica making money with M9's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 30, 2010 Posted June 30, 2010 Hi Guest jarski, Take a look here Leica doing well:. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Wolfgang Esslinger Posted June 30, 2010 Share #22 Posted June 30, 2010 good news from Leica, especially these times. wonder how long other possible dRF makers choose to stay aside and watch Leica making money with M9's. I doubt that the market is large enough for two or more producers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jarski Posted June 30, 2010 Share #23 Posted June 30, 2010 I doubt that the market is large enough for two or more producers. if cameras at Leica's prices are selling this well, it should be easy to improve from that and still make a profit, even in smallish dRF market. and am not trying to be anti-Leica here, or complain about their prices, but monopoly is never good for customers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 30, 2010 Author Share #24 Posted June 30, 2010 Zeiss opted out of competing because they found they could not match Leica's pricepoint.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrycioni Posted June 30, 2010 Share #25 Posted June 30, 2010 For those of us who own and use Leica this can only be very positive financial news. The M9 and S2 will help bring about the M10 and S3 and so on. All good! Given the state of (most) European economies - they should be very proud of their restructuring efforts and the outcome it brought to their bottom-line. Cheers to Leica and the folks who work for them worldwide. Best to all. Terry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxBob Posted June 30, 2010 Share #26 Posted June 30, 2010 Leica don't make cars that have to spend a large part of their life at the garage for goodwill rust repairs - in addition to the time it takes to repair issues with steering and suspension. I've had two MBs and will most likely never own another one. Sad to see a good brand go bad due to lousy engineering and poor qualiy control, but that is what is happening.Carl Oh btw: glad to see Leica making a profit. I have had four MB's and they have each been perfect throughout their life. No sign of any rust or any other type of problem. The rust problem was around with the previous CEO who did lower quality standards. Comparing Leica with cars is not the right comparison. the car market is highly competitive. the camera market is highly competitive. The digital M has no direct competitor that i can think of, nor does the X1 (is there another P&S that allows direct manual control and the S has no direct competitor. When buying any of these you could look at a different type of camera but you are being because it is a Leica and it has a unique control system (not S2). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted June 30, 2010 Share #27 Posted June 30, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) It's great Leica is moving in the right direction and we should all be hopeful Leica can meet our needs for decades to come. However, if Leica were publicly traded and I were a stock holder, I'ld read this with less enthusiam. Despite significant new products at great levels of investment, sales were only up 18%. And there is not a single word of how the increase in orders will be translated into an increase in sales over this level for the next reporting period. Orders, innovative technical solutions, product quality, and unique designs are all important, but growth comes from increased sales. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuxBob Posted June 30, 2010 Share #28 Posted June 30, 2010 Pretty clearly the M9 is a success of course and only represents the second all new M design in three years or so. That is quite leisurely if you like, in a digital market. In my opinion, it makes sense to keep progressively updating the M lens range since it is such a core part of their business. Just try to shop around for any of the new lenses or an M9 to see how much demand there is, so the market seems to agree. 12 months ago Stefan Daniel was quite candid with Forum members that the R10 project just didn't make sense for them given how the financial world has changed. Reportedly it would have had to sell for 6000 to 7000 EURO and compete in a market crowded with dSLRs. But that is old news. Im not sure what you had in mind regarding lens commonality but obviously the designs are not interchangeable with different flange distances as the very first obstacle. The X1 has a quite different set of requirements to M's and of course the M lens image circles are insufficent for an S sensor. Those are quite apart from the need to incorporate things like auto focus, central shutters, weather resistance, form factors, electrical interfaces, backwards compatibility and I'm sure that there are more. That's right. When your goods are selling at a premium, standard logic is milk the product and do not produce a replacement until sales have peaked. By all means work in the background on auto focus and so on but do not bring in replacements until you have to. Just using the car company analogy, VW have a basic chassis on which is built the Golf, Scirocco, Audi TT, various Seat, probably some Skoda and so on. Nearly all car manufacturers do this and Leica would benefit by reducing the number of basic components and optimizing their use over more of their range. Short production runs on complex products are expensive and the more Leica can rationalize the more money they will make and the more assured the future will be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jarski Posted June 30, 2010 Share #29 Posted June 30, 2010 However, if Leica were publicly traded and I were a stock holder, I'ld read this with less enthusiam. it must be much easier job for a CEO of non-stock listed company to work, and do long term planning, compared to one who's top concern is always to show some progress in quarter results, all details and plans aside, only what balance sheet shows, matters... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 30, 2010 Author Share #30 Posted June 30, 2010 It IS publicly traded, but has one large majority stockholder and a few minor ones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adan Posted June 30, 2010 Share #31 Posted June 30, 2010 On the basic news, a profit is better than a loss. Introductions of new products involve addition expense as well as additional sales (firmware revisions, fixing production-line flaws, covering warranty repairs, in addition to R&D) - so I'd expect there will be a "sweet spot" in coming quarters where the expensive bugs have been worked out and demand is still high. I'm amused by those who believe in - and demand - perpetual growth. I think the recent experience of the housing construction and mortgage loan businesses would remind folks that things don't just go up forever. There will always be room for new or disruptive businesses to grow individually, or even (at least for a time) pools of business (e.g. China) to grow in concert, but I think the world economy is reaching the point where "growth" will be limited to population + inflation + a zero sum (taking market share from someone else). And thus where shareholders who are depending on growth - rather than stable income - will be in for some rude surprises. From "Key Largo" - starring Edward G. Robinson as the mobster Johnny Rocco: Frank McCloud (Humphrey Bogart): He knows what he wants. Don't you, Rocco? Johnny Rocco: Sure. James Temple (Lionel Barrymore): What's that? Frank McCloud: Tell him, Rocco. Johnny Rocco: Well, I want uh ... Frank McCloud: He wants more, don't you, Rocco? Johnny Rocco: Yeah. That's it. More. That's right! I want more! James Temple: Will you ever get enough? Johnny Rocco: Well, I never have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jarski Posted June 30, 2010 Share #32 Posted June 30, 2010 It IS publicly traded, but has one large majority stockholder and a few minor ones. guess I revealed my ignorance (once) again.. just had an old impression of reading somewhere Leica leaving the stocks it had been listed earlier. oh well... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 1, 2010 Share #33 Posted July 1, 2010 LuxBob, I'll leave the car analogies to those interested. We do have regular threads crop up where people suggest that Leica Camera should make different business decisions. I think that they seem to be doing pretty well, personally. I don't think that there has been a constant stream of new models causing R&D costs to put them out of business and I tried to explain why your one lens design for all systems concept just cannot work. Obviously Leica Camera disagrees with you on the S & R systems but again that is old news. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest imported_torben Posted July 1, 2010 Share #34 Posted July 1, 2010 S2 sales are going extremely well. David What does "extremely? mean? How many have you sold? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 1, 2010 Author Share #35 Posted July 1, 2010 guess I revealed my ignorance (once) again.. just had an old impression of reading somewhere Leica leaving the stocks it had been listed earlier. oh well...Actually Dr. Kaufmann tried to make Leica a private company iirc, but somehow that did not work out, I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted July 1, 2010 Share #36 Posted July 1, 2010 Down here in Australia S2 sales haven't been that great, last month I was at one of Melbourne best Leica's dealers not one sale on the S2. And as for the M9, quite a few have been sold, but I haven't seen any on the streets either. probably their owners keep them in their glass cabinets to show how wealthy they are...Lol. Anybody using S2 or M9's at the world cup, it seems to me it's all Canon with some Nikons. Ken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted July 1, 2010 Share #37 Posted July 1, 2010 Anybody using S2 or M9's at the world cup, it seems to me it's all Canon with some Nikons I've not been really paying attention, but I did spot someone with a Hassy digital MF the other day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 1, 2010 Share #38 Posted July 1, 2010 Down here in Australia S2 sales haven't been that great, last month I was at one of Melbourne bestLeica's dealers not one sale on the S2. And as for the M9, quite a few have been sold, but I haven't seen any on the streets either. probably their owners keep them in their glass cabinets to show how wealthy they are...Lol. Anybody using S2 or M9's at the world cup, it seems to me it's all Canon with some Nikons. Ken. What do you expect? When the shutter speed dial dropped off m MP renderening it useless, and I asked the (edit) aus distributer for help scavenging a screw to re re fix it he politely and jokingly repsonded "We might have an M6 or something but that is reserved for the local professionals. Given you dealt direct with solms for your service and we dont know when (we can be bothered chasing leica up) perhaps it is better you continue to deal with them direct" Any pro switching to the S2 ................ well that would be his call. Im not a pro photographer and it isnt my living at stake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob_x2004 Posted July 1, 2010 Share #39 Posted July 1, 2010 I saw an M9 in Cambodia, the guy looked stressed before hopping back on his air conditioned bus back to his five star hotel in Siem reap. "Sorry I do not have any english" Really? I obviously wasnt good enough for him, its not like I'd stopped an bailed him up or anything. Jesus all I said was hows the nine handling the heat. Youd think I asked him how his wife was in bed. Monsoons are late this year. Take a brolly if you are going now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 1, 2010 Author Share #40 Posted July 1, 2010 What do you expect? When the shutter speed dial dropped off m MP renderening it useless, and I asked the (edit) aus distributer for help scavenging a screw to re re fix it he politely and jokingly repsonded "We might have an M6 or something but that is reserved for the local professionals. Given you dealt direct with solms for your service and we dont know when (we can be bothered chasing leica up) perhaps it is better you continue to deal with them direct" Any pro switching to the S2 ................ well that would be his call. Im not a pro photographer and it isnt my living at stake. You must have said something to those Aussie Leica guys at some time that pissed them off.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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