What means the "Re." engraving ?

[Pecole]

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A chrome MOOLY-C serialled 5135K came through my collection with a mysterious "Re.371104" (clearly Leitz original) engraving. I have long investigated to discover the meaning of this wartime, probably military engraving, and never found an answer. The only mention to date was in the comprehensive article by Lager, Clarke, Foris and Fricke published in the 4th 1974 issue of Viewfinder and illustrating a 1941-vintage IIIc engraved "Re.850320", but they just "suppose" it was related to Reich, Regiment or something like that. Curiously, Lager does not even mention "Re." engravings in his monumental "Illustrated history", neither Laney in his "Collector's guide".

Any information anybody ?

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[luigi bertolotti]

Military engraving, by sure : most "K" bodies+motors were for military use : i have seen it in some book : I'd say Lager - lens book - engraved at the base of some lens; maybe Van Hasbroek too : do not remember what it means ... some Reich..xxx... inventory or contract number

[jaapv]

Reichswehr was not a common term in nazi germany, usually the term Wehrmacht was used - but Wehrmachtslager Recklinghausen was one of the major depots and distribution centres of the Wehrmacht, giving rise to some serious fighting at Mühlheim towards the end of the war. I would surmise this stands for "Recklinghausen"

[pop]

Could be something as simple as "Register" which could stand for "inventory". That would make the use of the number following it quite obvious. In other words, an asset number.

 

It's only a speculation, out of thin air.

[dpattinson]

from back in 2009: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/96576-re-re.html#post1012337

[lars_bergquist]

Well, the 'Recklinghausen' idea is one of the best I've heard to date. But it is really strange that this not-too-uncommon marking remains a mystery. Sure there must exist some hard documentation somewhere?

 

The old man

[Pecole]

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from back in 2009: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-collectors-historica/96576-re-re.html#post1012337

 

Thanks, David. I had forgotten I had already published the pixes a year or so ago (my wife would say : Alzheimer). But again, there is no definite answer. I like two of the above suggestions : Recklinghausen and Register, both fitting with the various numbers observed after the "Re:".

[luigi bertolotti]

I just gave a look to Lager, about an Elmar 90 "Re. xxxxxx" : what he writes is "Government/Military (?) engraving..." : mistery remains...

[harryzet]

it means "Registraturnummer"

[luigi bertolotti]

"Registraturnummer" ? Ok, if you say it so surely, I take it for good : thanks a lot !

[Bob-S]

Here's my guess:

Almost definitely an inventory number. And reasonable to suppose that it is Leitz Wetzlar's own inventory. Any other german company would most likely have added their name and the engraving would have been far more primitive.

 

The RE for Recklinghausen, as seen in motor vehicle registration plates is part of a post war identification system for towns of the then West Germany.

[Pecole]

Here's my guess:

Almost definitely an inventory number. And reasonable to suppose that it is Leitz Wetzlar's own inventory. Any other german company would most likely have added their name and the engraving would have been far more primitive.

 

The RE for Recklinghausen, as seen in motor vehicle registration plates is part of a post war identification system for towns of the then West Germany.

 

Inventory number : OK, the most logical explanation since in line with the different numbers always registered after Re. Leitz' one ? Certainly not : pieces in Leitz inventory have consistently been marked "Leitz Eigentum" and no other number than the serial could logically be used. And finally, military engravings were not "primitive" : they were made by Leitz following the orders contracts, and Re. for Recklinghausen makes sense and would never have been shortened RE.

[jc_braconi]

Somme decades ago they were some discussions about this RE or Re engraved on a military Italian camera : Aeronautica Militare.

[luigi bertolotti]

Somme decades ago they were some discussions about this RE or Re engraved on a military Italian camera : Aeronautica Militare.

 

Yes, reported by Sartorius... they were Leica IIIb of early 40's : Italy had still a King and was still "Regno d'Italia" ("Italian Reign") : "Re. Areonautica" (or was it R. Areonautica only ?) could mean "Regia Areonautica" = "King's Air Force" .

[Pecole]

Yes, reported by Sartorius... they were Leica IIIb of early 40's : Italy had still a King and was still "Regno d'Italia" ("Italian Reign") : "Re. Areonautica" (or was it R. Areonautica only ?) could mean "Regia Areonautica" = "King's Air Force" .

 

The "Italian" engravings on both IIIb's and Summitars during the war, IIIc's and Summitars after the war, were respectively "R. AERONAUTICA" and "AERONAUTICA MILITARE", filled in red. The very first photos of these Italian Leicas - and their disclosure to the collectors' world - were published in my "Fontenelle Collection Newsletter" in 1980. Indeed, I had discovered 5 cameras (3 x IIIb and 2 x IIIc) and one lens offered in 1978 at a flea market in Brussels by an Italian guest worker (a miner)... who had most probably "stolen" them at some military storage in his country of origin. His explanation was that he bought them from the State Disposition Office, but both the (very low) price he asked for and his total lack of photographic background, as well as the fact that he choose to offer them in Belgium, contradicted that.

All IIIb's are serialled in the 339xxx and 345xxx ranges (mine were from 345285 to 345332) and the IIIc's 465-466xxx (mine : 455857 and 466003).

[sabears]

An old post, but still a mistery.

 

See this one under a Mooly-C, Mooly-C 5042

different place for numbers, also a "Z." added!

So here now we have Re.Z. XXXXXX.

 

I believe this have nothing to do with Reichssicherheitshauptamt.

 

Someone can solve this?

Cheers

[jc_braconi]

Just a suggestion : why not Re for Repariert ?

Z is may be for zahlen, one of signification for this word can be : adjusted;

This Z il also on II, III, IIIa shutter speed knob for time to be adjusted by yourself = B on the later models.

[luigi bertolotti]

An old post, but still a mistery.

 

.....

I believe this have nothing to do with Reichssicherheitshauptamt.

 

Cheers

 

Me too... the shop that posted it is a pleasant one (the only I entered in France... found and bought a nice leather M case that use on my M8...) but my impression is that it is not exactly a top place for collectors.

[sabears]

Thank you for your responses.

I don't understand also because well known Auction houses (may be in order to push up prices) declare same thing.

This seems more an urban legend (the Reichssicherheitshauptamt origin), serious researchers have to show evidences ( I mean may be if they found something in Leitz delivery registers).

The theory of Re. standing for Registraturnummer not bad, but the Z.?

Also the JC update have sense.

No one from Germany has other ideas?

 

Cheers.

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Hallo,

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[wizard]

No one from Germany has other ideas?

 

I concur with pop and harryzet above, the most logical explanation is that Re. is simply an abbreviation for the long German word 'Registraturnummer', inventory number or code in English. That does not explain the 'Z', however. That could be a code for a certain unit or department within the military or civil organization which applied the inventory number.

 

Andy