geotrupede Posted June 21, 2010 Share #1 Posted June 21, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just to say that indeed I have an M8 with the broken shutter. Was shooting portrait, then the last picture and a beeping message: drive blocked, shutter fault. Removed lens to see... a mess. I have been lucky as the passport is valid until this August... Will take about two months to be back, I added the coffee ring, the unaligned viewfinder to the list. Back to M6 for some time :-) G PS I have a feeling that most of M8 had the issue at some point... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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wstotler Posted June 21, 2010 Share #2 Posted June 21, 2010 I have a feeling that most of M8 had the issue at some point... You have my sympathies, for sure: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/124482-my-turn-shutter.html Regarding that "most" M8s have this problem, I don't think so. I do think it is a problem that can happen with at least "some" M8s. It could be 0.1%, it could be 5%. Only Leica service knows for sure how many M8s have had the problem and they aren't telling. Again, sympathies. Cheers! Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted June 22, 2010 Author Share #3 Posted June 22, 2010 Happy ending for you. And just 5 weeks.... I wish I had a fast forward button... maybe not.. I am quite ok as the M6 (TTL) is great, so I do not mind to wait. I already purchased 6 rolls of film :-) G PS My M8 is black, so no silver course... was shooting portrait, perhaps something fell off inside of the shutter and jammed it... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wstotler Posted June 22, 2010 Share #4 Posted June 22, 2010 Happy ending for you.And just 5 weeks.... I wish I had a fast forward button... maybe not.. I am quite ok as the M6 (TTL) is great, so I do not mind to wait. I already purchased 6 rolls of film :-) PS My M8 is black, so no silver course... was shooting portrait, perhaps something fell off inside of the shutter and jammed it... Here's hoping they get a quick turn-around for you. I didn't realize how much I really loved and used my M8 until it was away. For only a week! It was much different for me when it went for the shutter than when it had gone a year before for the sensor--I've really started to depend on photography in an entirely different way as part of my day-to-day routine in the last nine months. The wife green-lighted the second M8 virtually without comment, so she recognizes it, too. At the risk of sounding sexist, I can claim that I'm past the M8's surface sexiness and well into what is a happy marriage. I digress. . . . Sorry. Anyway, I'm unsure what caused the failure on my M8, but I do know it was not "foreign object damage" (FOD) where something loose fell into into the shutter blades. I assume that a component of the shutter bent or twisted from fatigue during use and this caused the shutter to collapse on itself. The shutter itself was unmarked. And I wasn't using a collapsable lens (like my 5cm Elmar f/3.5), so I don't suspect something rubbed and got damaged. (Not that a collapsable lens was the cause--all of mine completely clear the shutter, even when collapsed and I only mount them expanded so I don't risk a bump.) I also assume that Leica inspected the shutter and had it been FOD or caused by rubbing from a collapsable lens they would have charged me for the part as well as the repair instead of just the part. Mark Norton, another forum member, may be able to shed light in a specific way on what's happening mechanically when the shutters fail. There was discussion some time ago that the "new" shutters, available as part of the shutter upgrade program, were limited to 1/4000th top speed to prevent their failure like this. I seem to remember a brief exchange where people discussed the mechanical energy involved with 1/8000th was significantly more than the mechanical energy used for 1/4000. It's *only* a theory, but I can say that I don't shoot at 1/8000th all that often but was shooting quite a bit at 1/8000 on the beach under bright sun when mine ate itself. By chance, were you shooting at 1/8000 when your shutter failure happened? Cheers, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted June 23, 2010 Share #5 Posted June 23, 2010 Many cameras around use basically the same shutter made by the same outsourcer. However it is mounted in a frame/casing specific to the M8 so they had to make up a batch of them for Leica. It's possible some of them were faulty and obviously there is no way of knowing until they go kaput. So probably an OEM replacement will be fine (as were most of the originals). I chose to get the upgraded shutter proactively because Christian Erhard said it should be more durable, but in retrospect I wish I'd banked the upgrade money toward an M9. Ah well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted June 26, 2010 Author Share #6 Posted June 26, 2010 I was shooting at 1/30th, when the window is more open. Nothing fancy, but the camera was in oriented portrait. The camera is very cool and I am looking forward to have it back but I have to honestly admit that is a significantly unreliable piece of .... kit. It did crash many times. The old 'take off battery' trick worked smoothly, but the issue was that it was frozen when I wanted to shoot... so the moment was lost, every time it did so. And what about the time for powering up from sleep mode...? Typical scenario: camera on the neck, ready for action.... but in sleep mode (to save the mini battery life). You see something happening, focus and adjust quickly, press the release and...... after 1 second (!!!!) the camera wakes up.... and again the moment is lost. Despite all of this, we all stll love it... so Leica should realise how well they can craft emotions with brass and magnesium.... but also should ask either Canon or Nikon to fill the shell with good stuff for year 2010. Note that I am not asking for 12 fps, ISO 1600, movie, etc.... I am just hoping to see just no more crashes and freezes, no more this sadly short battery life. I also hope to see an improved and significantly shorter wake up time. M100? Thanks G P S all of this is much more evident when you shoot M6 for a day... something made in 1990s, stiff running, better dynamic range, better responsiveness, does not crash, silencer, no battery issues if you know f16... wow!!!!! M6 forever (and M5, M4, M3....) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted August 19, 2010 Author Share #7 Posted August 19, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Finally the M8 is back. It took about 2 months, but it is summer, so I can understand it. What I cannot understand is that the LCD has still the large brown circle and the shutter that once broke is still the same component (the blades were all messed up until I placed them back with my finger in a desperate attempt to fix the camera, fingerprints and scratches are still visible in the camera, so I deduce that the shutter was not replaced). The warranty expired just while the camera was away, and now I am out of luck. Next time the camera is down will be on me. No extended warranty on warranty repairs... mind they take so long... but it is summer. Now the questions: Shall I go back to the shop and make a fuss, ask to send it back and have it fixed, may be for real? Shall I be thrustful and hope that Leica people, which did ignore the LCD issue, instead did a great work on the shutter? I do not mind the brown spot, but I would really mind having to pay a lot to fix the shutter in a couple of months.... Please share your view / opinion. Thanks Giulio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted August 19, 2010 Share #8 Posted August 19, 2010 Giulio, If you had pointed out the 'coffee stain' on the LCD to Leica then you should make a fuss but if you didn't then I think you're probably stuck with it. Since Leica has repaired the shutter I would ask whether the shutter or camera has any warranty running from the repair date. If not, I would ask why not. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted August 19, 2010 Author Share #9 Posted August 19, 2010 Thanks for the reply, yes the ring was documented and raised prior repair, so this should have been adressed. The shop dealer simply said that a warranty repair does not extend warranty, and since the warranty was expiring in August this is it. For now I have filled the customer survey, next I will go back to the shop and see what can be done. As I said, the key point is the shutter, I am terrified that it will break again with displaced blades as did before. I have the impression that the issue was solved with a factory camera reset and not a mechanical cure... I am very disappointed by all. Giulio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted August 19, 2010 Share #10 Posted August 19, 2010 ... The shop dealer simply said that a warranty repair does not extend warranty, ... Giulio, This is disappointing and unsatisfactory imo. How are you protected against faulty or poor workmanship during the warranty repair? At the very least Leica should warranty the warranty repair work it has done. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted August 19, 2010 Author Share #11 Posted August 19, 2010 I will speak again with the dealer this Saturday. He is a kind person, so I am sure he will be open and we will find a solution. Anyway let's see how it goes, if it needs to go back it may be another 2 months. Which is a bad joke... If you think about in the end it may be even 4 months for a repair... I am sure that others would raise the issue how long is a reasonable time for a repair... Four months does not make sense to me... Thanks again for the encouraging words. G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 19, 2010 Share #12 Posted August 19, 2010 Giulio, I'm in the US and don't know standard procedures for European repairs, but my suggestion is that you contact Solms directly via phone or email. Give them your camera serial number, tell them when and by whom it was sent for repair and raise the questions: 1) my fingerprints are still on shutter--shouldn't it have been replaced? 2) my LCD still shows the brown "coffee ring"--why wasn't this corrected? What you are describing doesn't sound to me as if it was handled by Leica. Leica's customer service can clarify that. If the work was done by Leica, they will handle the re-do quickly. If the work wasn't done by Leica, you might ask your dealer why not. Since the camera was under warranty when you sent it for repair, I don't see any reason it shouldn't have gone to Leica. Good luck, and keep us in the loop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted August 19, 2010 Author Share #13 Posted August 19, 2010 Thanks! I will definitely call Solms tomorrow to clarify. Maybe they can explain... But I think the camera was handled by Leica officially, either here in UK or directly in Germany, the proof being a sort of repair summary with Leica service details on it. The funny side is that on the back of this summary there are a lot of conditions and clauses, but in german, with no english translation... may be there is written that I am entitled to a free M9, but I will never know... Anyway... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 20, 2010 Share #14 Posted August 20, 2010 ... may be there is written that I am entitled to a free M9, but I will never know... Don't we wish!! Okay, if you got German paperwork, it was done in Solms and that's good news. The transaction number will also be on the paperwork, and that may be quicker for them to find than the serial number, but both will work. I'm surprised that they handled the camera that way. (Maybe you shouldn't have pressed the shutter blades back into place? They'd have noticed if they were crunched up in the body. ) To me it sounds like a serious mess-up on their part, just as you and Pete said. But the good news is that they will likely make it good to you. From what you said, they messed up and they owe you the repair. Very un-Leica-like IMO. Good luck, Giulio, and keep us informed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geotrupede Posted August 20, 2010 Author Share #15 Posted August 20, 2010 I knew it! Leica exist I called Solms, had a nice and relaxed chat with the people at the help line. The summary is: -1- there is a 1 year warranty on the repair, but it is directly handled by Leica. Which is good and make me very very happy. The main key is to preserve the service summary which I was given. -2- they acknowledged that the LCD spot should not be there and are ready to fix this. They explained about the blades and said that if the shutter will fail, they will fix it. In the end I will keep using the camera, with a better feeling that if anything happens I am still in good hands. Knocking on wood, this post ends here... Giulio Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted August 20, 2010 Share #16 Posted August 20, 2010 Great news, Giulio! That's what I would have hoped for from Leica CS. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted August 20, 2010 Share #17 Posted August 20, 2010 Bravo! Thanks for the information and congratulations for the success! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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