My turn. Shutter. :)

[wstotler]

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Failed while shooting with no forewarning. Just shooting. Nothing special to trip off the failure. (E.g., I was in "S," not shooting discrete, etc.)

 

52091 actuations.

 

Of note, I did not receive the "Shutter Fault" message--it was just happily shooting off bad shots with the mangled shutter.

 

Shipped it off to Leica NJ today. Second trip for the camera. First "NJ holiday" was for the sensor replacement (the 640 ISO banding trouble) in March 2009.

 

My wife: "Wasn't it just there? Does this mean it will have to go in every year, then?"

 

Good news? The failure is solid and there is no doubt (unlike the "maybe" of the banding): Service needed.

 

Cheers!

Will

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[ho_co]

Will--

I'm sorry for the problem, but I love the upbeat tone of your post. Good take: Yes, judging from the look of it, this one needs to go in.

 

 

"Wasn't it just there? Does this mean it will have to go in every year, then?"

 

Sigh. Better buy her a beer.

[Shootist]

Sorry to hear of your trouble. The bad part is (A) you had a lot of shots ( Leica will surely charge you for a replacement.

 

You could sell it for parts, instead of paying to fix it, and take what you get and buy a M9.

 

Good luck.

[wstotler]

Thanks, guys. And about the M9? I still haven't mastered the M8 yet! So, fix it NJ.

 

Cheers,

Will

[jlindstrom]

This would be the perfect time to have them upgrade the shutter to m8.2 specs? I reckon it's not going to be much more than normal m8 shutter... and if it's done at Leica, those upgrades get the whole camera full 1 year warranty. I'd say it's worth a little extra

 

//Juha

[ho_co]

Curious thing, though--the upgrade is around $1000 IIRC, while the repair cost is only $525 according to others, no matter which shutter is involved.

 

Either way, of course, you get a one-year warranty on the whole camera, as Juha said.

 

They may include the options in the estimate. Otherwise, it might be worth a call.

 

And good luck.

[marknorton]

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HC,

 

New shutter speed dial required for the upgrade and as we know, they cost $475.

[ho_co]

Oh, Mark! Thanks for the reminder. How silly of me to have forgotten that!

[ampguy]

Well, if you like and use the 1/8000, the repair seems worthwhile.

 

How many folks with M8u (shutter 'upgrade') or M8.2 users have over 50K actuations?

[Tonysaurus]

I'm shopping around for an M8, and is it just me or do people have an extremely low expectation of the M8 shutter? No one is confident in buying an M8 with over 10 k actuations. Isn't this extremely low? Should I be worried? My Nikon D40 has over 50k shutter actuations and it's going mighty fine.

[ho_co]

... No one is confident in buying an M8 with over 10 k actuations....

 

Tonus--

I don't think that's accurate. There are a number of photographers on the forum who haven't reported shutter problems despite a lot of usage, river dunkings etc. I doubt that most M8 users pay much attention to how many actuations their shutters have. Since no one has official numbers, there's always evidence to support any point of view.

 

 

BTW--How do you determine shutter activations with a D40? Is it a field in the EXIF, or does it take some examination?

[wstotler]

I'm shopping around for an M8, and is it just me or do people have an extremely low expectation of the M8 shutter? No one is confident in buying an M8 with over 10 k actuations. Isn't this extremely low? Should I be worried? My Nikon D40 has over 50k shutter actuations and it's going mighty fine.

 

I did expect the shutter to last longer--to around 100K, regardless of rating--but it didn't.

 

I also expected to eventually be replacing the shutter when it failed due to wear and old age! Which I'm doing sooner, rather than later.

 

My expectation that Leica would be able to replace it--and will be able to repair the M8 for many, many years to come (because the camera is not "batch manufactured")--is well placed. Until I see evidence of "otherwise."

 

So, not unexpected. Just a speed-bump in my photography schedule for a while.

 

I'm happy to not be on the "should I upgrade my camera?" treadmill. Repair is clearly the option of choice. If this were a Nikon or a Canon or an Apple laptop I would be thinking like that, though. "Should I upgrade or get it fixed?" I'd likely upgrade, knowing that they wouldn't be ABLE to reliably fix it.

 

This is different from that. Although often moving at the speed of paraplegic turtles compared to other repair outfits, I have confidence that Leica *will* get my repair done. It is repairable. And they can do it. And they will do it. So, there's that.

 

Regarding the used M8 question? If you get one for $2K you'd have to spend $3K in repairs before you met the *original* price of the camera. So if you're going to buy one, just figure in $1K for "unexpected repairs" and you're $2K ahead of new. Yeah, like that.

 

Nevermind that at $3K (used M8 + repair pre-budget) you're a full $4K ahead of an M9. Go buy a used Nocti to put on the front of your used M8. And shoot that combo until the M8 breaks. Which it will. Eventually. Yeah, like that, too.

 

And let me tell you all about my M6TTL, which, like Thomas in a pinch, is suddenly feeling "really useful".

 

Thanks,

Will

[Tonysaurus]

BTW--How do you determine shutter activations with a D40? Is it a field in the EXIF, or does it take some examination?

 

Yep, it's in the EXIF data of the .jpegs.

 

 

So if you're going to buy one, just figure in $1K for "unexpected repairs" and you're $2K ahead of new. Yeah, like that.

 

Hrmmm... it's still a little unnerving. Either way you look at it, having to include "unexpected repairs" cost into any camera is pretty bad. Fingers crossed I can get my hands on a good one

[wstotler]

Hrmmm... it's still a little unnerving. Either way you look at it, having to include "unexpected repairs" cost into any camera is pretty bad. Fingers crossed I can get my hands on a good one

 

I hope you do get a good one!

 

Including "unexpected repairs" is a completely reasonable thing to do--I always figure in warranty and/or repair costs in when I purchase something because, eventually, it *will* fail and require repair or replacement. I'd prefer to pay more up-front on a tool that will be reasonably robust and can be repaired reliably.

 

Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) for the M8 is high--but the TCO for some of my friends with their photography "habit" is on par from a TCO perspective because they've sold cameras and/or upgraded, etc., instead of staying with one good tool. And they haven't shot their cameras that much. Another case: I know a Canon shooter I who wasn't satisfied with with his pro/prosumer gear and lens choices, bought an EP-1, wasn't completely happy, and bought a Bessa on top of that with some CV glass. Didn't sell anything. What kind of money and kit is HE into now. And still not satisfied. And still not really shooting much more than before.

 

Back to the M8 question, though. . . . I'll share this.

 

I had a co-worker say (different Canon user): "Oh, it went at 50,000 shots, eh?"

 

I said: "Yeah, yours might go at 50,000, too. In another three years at the rate you shoot. I'm sure Canon will be able to fix your six-year-old camera when you send it in."

 

He said: "I'll just buy another one. Upgrade time anyway."

 

To which I said: "Upgrade? Wouldn't it be worth fixing?"

 

Cheers!

Will

[ampguy]

I have an M8 with 30K actuations, but I expect the next owner to get at least 50K if not 100K (no 'C' mode firing, please). I will actually give a 50K warranty. If the shutter goes before 50K, they get a pro-rated refund, up to the repair or replacement cost.

 

I think this tops both Chevy and Hyundai's drivetrain warranties

 

I hope you do get a good one!

 

Including "unexpected repairs" is a completely reasonable thing to do--I always figure in warranty and/or repair costs in when I purchase something because, eventually, it *will* fail and require repair or replacement. I'd prefer to pay more up-front on a tool that will be reasonably robust and can be repaired reliably.

 

Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) for the M8 is high--but the TCO for some of my friends with their photography "habit" is on par from a TCO perspective because they've sold cameras and/or upgraded, etc., instead of staying with one good tool. And they haven't shot their cameras that much. Another case: I know a Canon shooter I who wasn't satisfied with with his pro/prosumer gear and lens choices, bought an EP-1, wasn't completely happy, and bought a Bessa on top of that with some CV glass. Didn't sell anything. What kind of money and kit is HE into now. And still not satisfied. And still not really shooting much more than before.

 

Back to the M8 question, though. . . . I'll share this.

 

I had a co-worker say (different Canon user): "Oh, it went at 50,000 shots, eh?"

 

I said: "Yeah, yours might go at 50,000, too. In another three years at the rate you shoot. I'm sure Canon will be able to fix your six-year-old camera when you send it in."

 

He said: "I'll just buy another one. Upgrade time anyway."

 

To which I said: "Upgrade? Wouldn't it be worth fixing?"

 

Cheers!

Will

[wstotler]

I will actually give a 50K warranty. If the shutter goes before 50K, they get a pro-rated refund, up to the repair or replacement cost. I think this tops both Chevy and Hyundai's drivetrain warranties

 

I think you're right! Nicely put.

[Tonysaurus]

It's definitely great that the Leica philosophy that an M camera is one that will last you your life and that your grandchildren are going to over it after your dead! Unfortunately in the digital world, you do need to upgrade for the latest and greatest, unlike film. So it's feasible to upgrade. I know that once I get an M8, I will definitely get an M9 after that and would rather upgrade than repair.

[rejean]

I bought a M8 on Ebay ($2840). I received the camera like new. I upgraded the firmware to 2.004 and got a dead frozen M8.

Now my M8 is in Germany for a circuit board replacement (+/-$900) and an expected 3 months for the repair.

Fortunately I got this shot of my grand daughter at work before it froze, it's helping me to wait.

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[wstotler]

Unfotunately in the digital world, you do need to upgrade for the latest and greatest, unlike film. So it's feasible to upgrade.

 

While this is true--that one must upgrade to get the "latest and greatest"--the feature set of the M8 is such that IMO it is a "terminal" camera for many years to come. I cannot see the camera really being the limiting factor in my photography. (Except when I don't have it! LOL.)

 

I have never felt that the camera has "lost" a shot, nor have I ever felt constrained by the camera--once I had the set of lenses I now have. (I was feeling this way about the Digilux 2, however, before I "upgraded" to the M8. I was working faster/better than the camera in many situations.)

 

I've taken the position with the M8 that if I couldn't get the shot, it's my lack of expertise--not the camera. My skills have improved dramatically since I've taken that position, BTW. People, on the whole, don't think this way. They tend to let the camera have much more responsibility for the shot than it should. And advertisers are happy to push this line of thinking, contributing to this mindset. When it's the camera in charge, an upgraded camera makes sense--it gets smarter and all you have to do is pay the money to do better, right? Pfffft. I'm the one who needs upgraded, it's skill, not tool in this case.

 

With the Leica lens kit I have and my current level of experience, the M8 performs exceptionally well.

 

As an "upgrade" to the M8, the M9 is fine, but full-frame and slightly better ISO performance are an incremental improvement, IMO. Not knocking the platform, just saying--it's not a "game changer." I don't see ISO dramatically improving on an M10, which would be a primary motivator to get one. We'll see.

 

The only reason I could see being forced to "upgrade" is in the case where the M8 becomes "desupported" by Leica's repair department and no third party steps in to provide that support. I would be pissed, to say the least, if they did this in the near-term.

 

Cheers!

Will

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Hallo,

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[wstotler]

Camera arrived in NJ last Tuesday. Called Thursday and Friday. They located the camera but it was not in their computer system yet. ?? Was told to call back Monday or Tuesday.

 

Called back this morning and was told the estimate of work had not yet been performed by the technician, but they agreed to call me when the estimate was complete so I could authorize the repair. (I said I didn't want to burn a bunch of time waiting on an invoice to go through snail mail to my door.)

 

They're figuring a minimum of four to five weeks--but possibly as long as eight--to get the camera turned around to me *after* the estimating process is complete. (Somebody had mentioned *twelve weeks* last week, which really sucks. We'll see.) This timeline is about what I figured--I replaced the sensor last year and expect this kind of wait from Leica NJ.

 

Meanwhile, after deciding Friday afternoon that Leica's slow repair service is more my problem than their problem--because I should have a second body if I'm going to put professional expectations on my own availability (I'd do the same if it were Canon or Nikon, BTW)--I sucked it up and bought a used chrome M8 with low actuations and in good condition from another forum member. The camera arrived this afternoon and works great. When my M8 comes back I'll have two. Which would be the minimum for professional work, anyway.

 

Cheers!

Will