Guest BigSplash Posted June 28, 2010 Share #61 Posted June 28, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) That's ridiculous What if the electronic parts aren't available in a decade or two? Part of the joy of owning a Leica I/II/II etc is the knowledge that they can be fixed in 50 years time. Part of the pain of owning anything with a chip in it, is the knowledge that they can't. You just have to live with it. Coming from the electronics industry, I would have thought that this would have been obvious. Andy you echo my sentiments exactly. However it has taken a long time for you to come to the conclusion that Bill's 80 year comment that Leica support their product for 80 years is indeed ridiculous. Most of his comments add no value this one is just misleading When Bill gives us this comment is in respect of a thread on future digital firmware well.........I leave it to you to give Bill some advice! I would believe that just as Leica have hoarded some spares for the DMR they will do the same for M8 and M9. Certainly, if we are talking integrated circuits including sensors this would be reasonable to do. I would hope they have done the same for key items such as the microprism part that is fitted to the Kodak sensor, and of course the shutter parts that they obtain form external suppliers. My view is that they should aim for what companies such as B&O do (20 years parts availability) or possibly go beyond that. However what this has to do with software firmware during the life of a product is beyond me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 28, 2010 Posted June 28, 2010 Hi Guest BigSplash, Take a look here Firmware is on its way !?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
stunsworth Posted June 28, 2010 Share #62 Posted June 28, 2010 I would believe that just as Leica have hoarded some spares for the DMR they will do the same for M8 and M9. Certainly, if we are talking integrated circuits including sensors this would be reasonable to do. I would hope they have done the same for key items such as the microprism part that is fitted to the Kodak sensor... Surely the sensor is supplied complete with micro-lenses - not micro-prisms are far as I'm aware - from Kodak? Or do Leica glue them on themselves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 28, 2010 Share #63 Posted June 28, 2010 I was responding to you, of course, not BIll. How you could read into my post support for your idea that any electronics company will be able to support their products in 20 years time is beyond me. Leica haven't hoarded spares for the DMR. And the M8 and M9 have outsold the DMR by a factor of at least 20-1. How much inventory do you want them to hold? 40,000 sensors? 50,000? How much is that going to cost them? Madness. You are the one that moved the thread away from the original thought - as usual. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 28, 2010 Share #64 Posted June 28, 2010 Surely the sensor is supplied complete with micro-lenses - not micro-prisms are far as I'm aware - from Kodak? Or do Leica glue them on themselves. Wasn’t it the case that little elves in Solms were busily grinding micro-lenses, to be fitted onto each individual sensor pixel? And didn’t one get a small bag of spare micro-lenses with each camera so one could repair the sensor should some mirco-lenses fall out while changing the main lens? Oh wait, that wasn’t in Solms but in some fairytale world … Actually the sensor comes complete with a layer of micro-lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 28, 2010 Share #65 Posted June 28, 2010 Frank, Sweetie, it really is very flattering when you refer to me in every post, but I am starting to get just a little disturbed by your unwanted attentions. I'm really not that sort of boy. Go and have a cold shower, eh? Me, I'll just go on adding absolutely no value at all to Leica, this forum, and the human race in general. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted June 28, 2010 Share #66 Posted June 28, 2010 Frank, you whinge more than my two year old. Leica does things the way they like to do them. Like it or lump it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelos Viskadourakis Posted June 29, 2010 Share #67 Posted June 29, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) is in the nature of the young to believe a lot of things can happen and in the nature of the old -to believe- that all things are complicated ,tiresome and impossible,is just nature.A good night sleep always brings bright ideas."Keep Thinking,Everything Is Possible" The name of the game is "Be Inventive" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 29, 2010 Share #68 Posted June 29, 2010 That's ridiculous What if the electronic parts aren't available in a decade or two? Part of the joy of owning a Leica I/II/II etc is the knowledge that they can be fixed in 50 years time. Part of the pain of owning anything with a chip in it, is the knowledge that they can't. You just have to live with it. Coming from the electronics industry, I would have thought that this would have been obvious. Well, to be fair, Andy, Leica has a huge stock of parts for their old models, but they do not stock every single part back to 1930. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 29, 2010 Share #69 Posted June 29, 2010 This thread is clearly going nowhere. I have indicated my views on Firmware support but noone seems to have a view on that one, other than Leica should release software when they see fit and should not feel any need to give us prior warning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 29, 2010 Share #70 Posted June 29, 2010 That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. What would you do with the knowledge that a firmware update was going to be here on [Friday]? That's the bit I don't understand. How would your life or photography be improved by having this knowledge in your possession? Apart from being at home waiting for an announcement to be made on [Friday] maybe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 29, 2010 Share #71 Posted June 29, 2010 That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. What would you do with the knowledge that a firmware update was going to be here on [Friday]? That's the bit I don't understand. How would your life or photography be improved by having this knowledge in your possession? Apart from being at home waiting for an announcement to be made on [Friday] maybe. I would not be making the decision to send my lenses away for coding at Malcolm Taylor. I would be happy to know that when I take my next batch of images of my grandaughter that I can use the bracketing function rather than having to do that all manually as I do now. Here in the S.France there seems to be very difficult lighting scenarios and bracketing plus use of the grey card seems to be the norm for me at least. I also would know that my camera was not actually defective anymore as the shutter firmware fix was finally implemented. Personally one of the reasons I bought into Leica is that I know if I make poor photos it is difficult to blame the camera or lenses ...they are faultless, but when we have firmware fixes and upgrades not happening since months the mystique starts to wear thin. Andy you have no need for firmware fixes or feature upgrades as you are a Nikon man in the digital era and a committed film fan for Leica. I cannot understand why you are attacking me for wanting firmware upgardes for my M8 and that I want the few remaining bugs fixed. I believe Leica to be the best camera in the world but it is not perfect. Is it stopping me taking photos ..NO! Is it something many of us want fixed ...YES.... Is it something that Leica should be wanting to fix and introduce new features with a view to earning more business ...YES! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted June 29, 2010 Share #72 Posted June 29, 2010 The only reason you would want to use uncoded lenses would presumably be if you had access to the manual lens selection feature from the M9. Unfortunately Leica have said that it's not possible with the M8. Whether that's because of processor limitations, lack of available memory, or the fact that the code can't be lifted from one to camera to the other I don't know. I'm sure Malcolm will do an excellent job. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigSplash Posted June 29, 2010 Share #73 Posted June 29, 2010 The only reason you would want to use uncoded lenses would presumably be if you had access to the manual lens selection feature from the M9. Unfortunately Leica have said that it's not possible with the M8. Whether that's because of processor limitations, lack of available memory, or the fact that the code can't be lifted from one to camera to the other I don't know. I'm sure Malcolm will do an excellent job. I am not aware that Leica cannot do manual lens selection on M8 ...where have they said that? I am very surprised as I have been talking to Solms and this was not raised as an issue. Thanks for the input however. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 29, 2010 Share #74 Posted June 29, 2010 Andy you have no need for firmware fixes or feature upgrades as you are a Nikon man in the digital era and a committed film fan for Leica. I cannot understand why you are attacking me for wanting firmware upgardes for my M8 and that I want the few remaining bugs fixed. I believe Leica to be the best camera in the world but it is not perfect. I am not attacking you at all. I am only saying that there is no need for Leica to tell you what will be in a next firmware update before they deliver it, as you can't do anything with that knowledge, despite what you say above. And, why would a firmware update make any difference to whether you have your lenses coded? They should all be coded by now anyway and a firmware update is not going to obviate the need for that to be done if you want the best out of them on your M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 29, 2010 Share #75 Posted June 29, 2010 I am not aware that Leica cannot do manual lens selection on M8 ...where have they said that? I am very surprised as I have been talking to Solms and this was not raised as an issue. Thanks for the input however.I'm not surprised Solms does not raise issues in casual talks with customers... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 29, 2010 Share #76 Posted June 29, 2010 Keep twisting, Frank... you are creating a nice cool breeze on a hot day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted June 29, 2010 Share #77 Posted June 29, 2010 I am not aware that Leica cannot do manual lens selection on M8 ...where have they said that? This has been the topic of some hot discussions for months now; surprising this should have escaped your attention. Stefan Daniel is on record saying it isn’t possible and while that doesn’t strictly preclude they could still surprise us with a firmware update implementing manual lens selection (based on some insight they have gained during the past couple of months, say), it would be prudent to assume that they will not. There will probably be another firmware update for the M8 and it may fix a couple of bugs, but nothing so far suggests there will be any new features implemented. (Apart from that it would not be a mistake to have one’s lenses coded even if there was a manual lens selection update forthcoming.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelos Viskadourakis Posted June 29, 2010 Share #78 Posted June 29, 2010 The M8 has to have asap what has to have ,all the rest is a waste of many vital things,the firmware has to be updated and the hardware has to become what should be the first day,is good for the company for the M system and for all the present and future M photographers,suggestions and needs and opinions had been presented.Everyone has to take his responsibilities.Announcements for the M8 are delayed beyond commercial acceptance.We all understand that many thousand of M8 photographers do not consider to replace their camera bodies with M9 or any other in the very close future until they see what company is doing with M8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 29, 2010 Share #79 Posted June 29, 2010 Sorry, I can only call this bollocks. There are tens of thousands of M8 users perfectly happy with what it is. Nothing will be done to the hardware, as it is a discontinued product. Just normal repair support from now on. Firmware will indeed be updated as needed, but why on earth should Leica add new features:confused:. They brought out a new model for that. I cannot recall any instance of any camera manufacturer providing that kind of support, in fact Leica is probably the best company in that respect. I know many M8 owners and the only reason they do not buy an M9 in my experience is because they are completely satisfied with their M8. Please document your "many thousands":rolleyes: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 29, 2010 Share #80 Posted June 29, 2010 The M8 has to have asap what has to have ,all the rest is a waste of many vital things,the firmware has to be updated and the hardware has to become what should be the first day,is good for the company for the M system and for all the present and future M photographers,suggestions and needs and opinions had been presented.Everyone has to take his responsibilities.Announcements for the M8 are delayed beyond commercial acceptance.We all understand that many thousand of M8 photographers do not consider to replace their camera bodies with M9 or any other in the very close future until they see what company is doing with M8. Angelos, PLEASE breathe. Punctuation is essential to comprehension. Please also understand. The M8 is extinct. No more. Deleted. Discontinued. Leica are behaving perfectly reasonably in regard to the M8, and more so than is reasonable to expect from any other company. Like it or not, with every day that passes, the tiny proportion of M users represented by the M8 gets smaller and smaller. It is an evolutionary dead-end that in time will be beyond economical repair, and after that beyond physical repair due to shortage of parts. The world has moved on, with good reason. Leica has moved on. The future is full-frame, and the future lies with the M9 and beyond. We do NOT "all understand" that "thousands" of M8 photographers are waiting to see what Leica does with the M8, because they have realised that NOTHING MATERIAL IS GOING TO HAPPEN. Thousands have in fact moved on to the M9, with a sigh of relief. I admire your passion, but it is sadly misplaced. Enjoy your camera in good faith, but for Dawkins' sake, get real. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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