Pecole Posted June 17, 2010 Author Share #21 Posted June 17, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Looking at the threads related to my posting on the UR-PLOOT and its drawing, it seems that this piece of equipment is of interest to many collectors. I have always been fascinated by the PLOOT, even before getting the UR/prototype in my collection, and I owned a total of 13, the lowest serial being 1232 and the highest 7257. Further, I took note of all serials I encoutered with other collectors or in publications and catalogues (Cornwall...), and I have a list of 103. The lowest serial is "1002" and the highest 7270, both in Lager Accessories, this author estimating that a little more than 6.000 have been produced. Coming to the dates, I found that Albert quoted the presentation of the Telyt 4,5/20cm "mit Spiegel" ("with mirror") on August 5, 1933 (page 39). And finally about the association of the PLOOT with the UXOOR bellows, the latter's original introduction leaflet by Leitz is the "Liste Photo Nr.8084 IV/50/AY/o. Pr." (April 1950) and illustrates the bellows mounted on PLOOT Nº 5185. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 17, 2010 Posted June 17, 2010 Hi Pecole, Take a look here UR-PLOOT ?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
zeitz Posted June 17, 2010 Share #22 Posted June 17, 2010 The first reflex housing offered commercially was the Astro Berlin Identoskop in 1934. The ads I have are from the British Journal of Photography. Leitz did not have an ad until 1935. It could be argued about when the first one was actually delivered. The UR PLOOT may have been the first one actually made. The Identoskop, which continued essentially unchanged into the 1950s, is actually a very usable piece of equipment. The long viewfinder was correct up and down/right to left. The focal lenths available from Astro Berlin still exceed anything ever offered by Leitz. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted June 17, 2010 Share #23 Posted June 17, 2010 One other comment. The Identoskop with the earliest serial number I have ever seen is for sale at kevincameras.com. The price being asked is in the astro category - astronomical. Astro Berlin serial numbers below 39999 were made before the war; serial numbers 50000 and up were made after the war. I have never seen an Astro Berlin product with a 4xxxx serial number. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 17, 2010 Share #24 Posted June 17, 2010 One other comment. The Identoskop with the earliest serial number I have ever seen is for sale at kevincameras.com. The price being asked is in the astro category - astronomical. Astro Berlin serial numbers below 39999 were made before the war; serial numbers 50000 and up were made after the war. I have never seen an Astro Berlin product with a 4xxxx serial number. Thanks for the info... you mean THIS , I suppose : https://www.leicashop.com/vintage/astroberlin-reflex-housing-identoskop-p-542.html Has it the same depth as the PLOOT/Viso I ? I ask for, in the same site, I see for sale an Astro Berlin lens (400 f 5) fitted onto a Viso I, and another Astro lens (300 f3,5 - great aperture for that times !) onto an Identoskop. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted June 17, 2010 Share #25 Posted June 17, 2010 Nice family photo, JC. I really enjoy these discussions from the time that the Leica system was invented. . I do think your glossy black bellows pre-dates 1951, but I think it was made during WWII or shortly after. Obviously this is a guess and I have no way to prove it. Perhaps this will lead us into a discussion of focusing stages and the associated adapters for it. I have never observed any commonality between the focusing stage systems and the reflex housing systems. First I corrected the reference in my last post ... it is Lager and not Laney III. The "BellowsI UR " I have is guessed also by many collectors like you to be from just before or during WWII. I think the discussion of focusing stage and the associated adapters for it will be interesting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted June 17, 2010 Share #26 Posted June 17, 2010 Wow. That now is the oldest one I have seen. And the price is quite good. The depth is much bigger than Viso I. I'll look it up tonight at home. In the 50's Astro Berlin did make an adapter for Viso I. Any good machinist could easily make one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted June 17, 2010 Share #27 Posted June 17, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Correction: The Kevin Cameras Identoskop is 18149; the Leica Shop Identoskop is 18150. So the Kevin Cameras one is the lowest number Identoskop that I have recorded. The flange to flange dimension is 68.1mm in comparison to the 62.5mm dimension of the PLOOT. The thread is 76mm diameter with 1.0mm pitch. The male thread is on the Identoskop. Astro Berlin lenses have female threads at the camera end. Just the opposite of most lenses. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeitz Posted June 17, 2010 Share #28 Posted June 17, 2010 Pecole, I appreciate this information very much. What is Albert? Can you tell from "Liste Photo Nr.8084 IV/50/AY/o. Pr." what the finish is? Glossy black or black crackle? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 18, 2010 Share #29 Posted June 18, 2010 Correction: The Kevin Cameras Identoskop is 18149; the Leica Shop Identoskop is 18150. So the Kevin Cameras one is the lowest number Identoskop that I have recorded. The flange to flange dimension is 68.1mm in comparison to the 62.5mm dimension of the PLOOT. The thread is 76mm diameter with 1.0mm pitch. The male thread is on the Identoskop. Astro Berlin lenses have female threads at the camera end. Just the opposite of most lenses. Ok... very interesting (I always liked mirror boxes)... so the adapter you quoted before ought to be this one (from Leicashop - Astro 400 on Viso I), right ? Looks consistent with the dimensions you quote. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/123641-ur-ploot/?do=findComment&comment=1355102'>More sharing options...
zeitz Posted June 18, 2010 Share #30 Posted June 18, 2010 Like you I'm really into mirror boxes/reflex housings, especially the obscure German products. Concerning the Leica Shop photo, that looks like it would be correct. I wish the photo were not cropped so tight. It still is better than any other photo of this piece that I have seen. Now that we have discussed PLOOT and Identoskop in detail, should we start a Tewe Mirroscope discussion? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pecole Posted June 18, 2010 Author Share #31 Posted June 18, 2010 Pecole, I appreciate this information very much. What is Albert? Can you tell from "Liste Photo Nr.8084 IV/50/AY/o. Pr." what the finish is? Glossy black or black crackle? Sorry, Zeitz, I'd have been more precise : "Albert" means the reference to the famous book "Geburtstage der Leitz-Foto-Konstruktionen ab 1927" by Wilhelm Albert. As far as the UXOOR introduction leaflet is concerned, it is difficult to judge from the four different printed pictures, but it looks like "black crackle", especially when compared to the glossy black front plate. Leically yours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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