jaapv Posted June 7, 2010 Share #21 Posted June 7, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Which all comes down to how much control a manufacturer has over their distributors - for a company of Leica's limited size that is more restricted than a giant like Canon, I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 7, 2010 Posted June 7, 2010 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Leica, I am really disappointed.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
tom0511 Posted June 7, 2010 Share #22 Posted June 7, 2010 Which all comes down to how much control a manufacturer has over their distributors - for a company of Leica's limited size that is more restricted than a giant like Canon, I suppose. I totally do not understand what Leica is (not) doing. They put high amounts of money in a prestige project ala S2, then they have a nice selling product ala M9 and lens and just dont get it managed to serve the market. It is like a Pizza restaurant making big Promo and then only having 2 Pizzas per evening to sell, and doing this for 9 months again every evening. I am lucky and do have an M9 from day 1, but I still dont understand Leicas strategy and planning (if there is any) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 7, 2010 Share #23 Posted June 7, 2010 They just can't make enough M9s and don't have any more sufficiently skilled workers to make them any faster than they do now. This has been discussed many times before on the forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 7, 2010 Share #24 Posted June 7, 2010 I totally do not understand what Leica is (not) doing.They put high amounts of money in a prestige project ala S2, then they have a nice selling product ala M9 and lens and just dont get it managed to serve the market. It is like a Pizza restaurant making big Promo and then only having 2 Pizzas per evening to sell, and doing this for 9 months again every evening. I am lucky and do have an M9 from day 1, but I still dont understand Leicas strategy and planning (if there is any) The S2 is made in a different department and production process. To expand our analogy - You are complaining the cannot bake enough pizzas because the line of customers is around the block and they have only so many ovens and pizza jerkers, whilst their icecream parlor is keeping up with the customers for that section. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 7, 2010 Share #25 Posted June 7, 2010 Skills at making icecream being non-transferable to the pizza market, of course Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frc Posted June 7, 2010 Share #26 Posted June 7, 2010 I scream, you scream, we scream, we all scream for Ice creaM! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 7, 2010 Share #27 Posted June 7, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Skills at making icecream being non-transferable to the pizza market, of course Well, if you can figure out a way to bake a pizza in an icecream maker.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted June 7, 2010 Share #28 Posted June 7, 2010 Here's a pertinent post http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/127977-usa-delivery-unacceptable-2.html#post1350499 10 days it took this guy to get an M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted June 7, 2010 Share #29 Posted June 7, 2010 .... It is really a nonsense where someone has waited 4 months and is still without and they are on a dealer's shelf somewhere else. On that we can agree... If I want something badly I don't sit back on my arse and wait for someone else to source something so important to me; instead I would have taken my fate in my own hands and actually invested some time and effort into ringing and emailing around. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted June 7, 2010 Share #30 Posted June 7, 2010 I can understand Leica being held up against the wall like this, and blame it to the current economic crisis and difficult times ahead even for Germany. And as for the big players, well look what happened to Apple which just recently was announced as the second biggest company in market cap, bypassing it's rival MS. Well they are also on backorders with their ipads. If you predict wrong, you predict wrong and that's it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
syccsy Posted June 8, 2010 Author Share #31 Posted June 8, 2010 Thanks everyone... I did not expect so many comments... 1) I will take my M7 + Nikon digital for the trip. 2) Yes, I have got several rolls of Kodachrome 64 with me. Thank you for the suggestion... 3) Of course, I will enjoy the trip without regret. Unfortunately, some comments were rather naive: For whom have already had an M9, would you leave her at home and buy a single-use-Kodak at your destination (of course, you are a so called "photographer", camera does not make different)? Why bother to buy it at the first place for $8,000.00? I do envy whoever already got one, enjoy it. I love Leica cameras and lenses, I do enjoy taking photos. However, I still do not understand why I have to wait for so long. It is almost $8,000.00 (after tax) for a single product, and it is NOT selling at Future Shop. Me, as a customer, should I expect a little bit more? An honesty apology from Leica would be nice for all Leica Fans. Leica did make mistakes at their marketing / sales department. They are promoting something that they could not keep up making it - that is the fact, isn't? Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bybrett Posted June 8, 2010 Share #32 Posted June 8, 2010 It all seems very simple to me - 1000 units per month is a better business plan than 12000 up front. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbaron Posted June 8, 2010 Share #33 Posted June 8, 2010 However, I still do not understand why I have to wait for so long. If it aint in the shop you can't have it. Plain and simple. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
larryk34 Posted June 8, 2010 Share #34 Posted June 8, 2010 I agree: stop in Hong Kong on the way. The collapse of the Euro might even get you a better price there. I just read that Leica just opened a new store of their own there. Don't you suppose that it gets supplied with M9s? Hong Kong is on the way. If you get one here before you leave, then use it to take photographs of Hong Kong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted June 8, 2010 Share #35 Posted June 8, 2010 Why bother to buy it at the first place for $8,000.00? I still do not understand why I have to wait for so long. Look at it from the other way around. Should an $8k camera replace your film camera. The M7 with the right film is unbeatable. However they really complement each other, Digital is not a complete replacement for film (it is getting close though). If you don't believe me I can show you some shots done in Tri-X that could not be done with digital, (Ok... perhaps HDR maybe). For a had crafted work of photographic art... that is the admission price, and in my view it is worth every penny. As a tool it is not perfect, it has it's limitations, but within those limitations, there is a world of quality to explore. Why do we have to wait.... because Leica is a small company, and did not expect the M9 to sell as it is. They tooled for more than the usual number of bodies that the M8, M7, etc were made, and were completely caught off guard even then. In fact if they know how big of a hit they had, there was little they could, as they are a small company, and expected growth, but not as big as it turned out... I think there worst fear is now they have a best seller, what will happen when it's over and they are stuck with this extra work force. Not to mention that this staff is specially trained, there apprenticeship program is not based around instant assembly line worker... they are skilled craftsmen. So what happens now.... we wait, until it's our turn, if we are passive, or we actively seek out our M9... The choice is ours. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beewee Posted June 8, 2010 Share #36 Posted June 8, 2010 ...I just read that Leica just opened a new store of their own there. Don't you suppose that it gets supplied with M9s? Hong Kong is on the way. There are two Leica shops in Hong Kong, one at the IFC in Central and one at Time Square in Causeway Bay. Both sell at list price. Unless you want to pay out of your nose and then some, avoid those places. Go to Man Shing or Kowloon Life Photo Service if you want a legit Leica dealer that won't scam you. My 18/3.8 SE bought at Man Shing was over $1000USD cheaper than the Leica shop. They're an authorized dealer and one of very few camera stores that are trusted by the locals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beewee Posted June 8, 2010 Share #37 Posted June 8, 2010 However, I still do not understand why I have to wait for so long. It is almost $8,000.00 (after tax) for a single product, and it is NOT selling at Future Shop. Me, as a customer, should I expect a little bit more? 3 Words: Supply and Demand. There are obviously a lot of people that are willing to pay $8k for a camera. The recession doesn't do all that much to people that are willing to pay $8k for a camera since if you have $8k to toss at a camera, you are obviously not hurting from the recession. Leica (specifically the range finders) is in the same league as Rolls Royce, Rolex, and Hermes. Most people who can afford and are willing to pay a premium for products from such companies are well to do and have enough disposable income that money is no longer an object. They buy what appeals to them and if it happens to be "the smallest full frame camera", handmade in Germany and carries the badge for being a direct descendent of the very first 35mm format camera, then they will spend the cash (even if photography is just a small hobby) to get it. Here's an illustration of what the uber rich is like. I once was at a private airport terminal watching a private jet pull off to the runway. One of the passengers had left a pair of sunglasses at the terminal so when the airport staff found out, they radioed the pilot and the plane promptly turned around. The private jet costs somewhere in the order of $3-5,000/hr to operate (even when it's simply sitting on the ground) and the jet took a good 30 minutes to taxi back to the terminal for the passenger to get his sunglasses and then head off again. Now 30 minutes would have meant $1500-2500 worth of engine time. Obviously, to the passenger who can afford to fly a private jet, this is no big deal. These are people that, if they wanted, can easily buy a pallet full of M9s if they really wanted. And let me tell you, there are a lot of these people if you ever frequent private airport terminals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted June 8, 2010 Share #38 Posted June 8, 2010 3 Words: Supply and Demand. Leica (specifically the range finders) is in the same league as Rolls Royce, Rolex, and Hermes. Most people who can afford and are willing to pay a premium for products from such companies are well to do and have enough disposable income that money is no longer an object. They buy what appeals to them and if it happens to be "the smallest full frame camera", handmade in Germany and carries the badge for being a direct descendent of the very first 35mm format camera, then they will spend the cash (even if photography is just a small hobby) to get it. Hrrruuummmph. We are not all elitist pigs. I have a retired friend who works at home depot to pay for his M9. I live a simple life style, my only expenditure is my photography. Speak for yourself... Buy enlarge most people I know who shoot with M's are people who love there art, a few are pro's but most don't care for business, and only a couple are rich. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrogers Posted June 8, 2010 Share #39 Posted June 8, 2010 I think there worst fear is now they have a best seller, what will happen when it's over and they are stuck with this extra work force. Not to mention that this staff is specially trained, there apprenticeship program is not based around instant assembly line worker... they are skilled craftsmen. So what happens now.... we wait, until it's our turn, if we are passive, or we actively seek out our M9... The choice is ours. I think this hits the nail on the head. Leica can't just hire extra people to deal with the initial demand for the camera, and doesn't have an endless product pipeline to keep a large workforce busy indefinitely. They have to balance future sales expectations with current demand, and come up with a sustainable business that lets them maintain production at a steady level. I hope this works for them. I really do want Leica to continue as a viable, serviceable option for me in the future, and it doesn't really bother me to wait for an M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beewee Posted June 8, 2010 Share #40 Posted June 8, 2010 We are not all elitist pigs. I don't believe I've ever accused anyone of being elitists. All I'm just saying is that there are a hell of a lot of people out there who may want an M9 for more reasons than to take pictures with. Just my two cents. Edit: Let me added that I doubt there are very many people on this forum that are the type who buy brand spanking new Leicas only to take them home and promptly shrink wrap everything so that they don't lose the smell of the vulcanite and then either put it in a display case or in a safe. But these people do exist, and there are a lot of them (especially in Asia). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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