Will the real audience for the S2 please stand-up...

[lct]

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First time i see serious people aknowledge the obvious i.e. that the S2 is made for Arab cheikhs and Russian oligarchs. So much the better for them but we, modest R users, are left on the side of the road with our Leitax mounts and EOS adapters.

[jplomley]

Really enjoyed your (&wife's) website Jeff - some wonderful images - landscapes particularly - great stuff

 

Many thanks, I truly appreciate the feedback. Just wish the web was more adequate at doing the prints justice.

[wildlightphoto]

... Even experienced photographers assume it is an R.... only .000000001 of the population know what an S2 might be.

 

Funny, last fall in the Lake Tahoe area another photographer thought my R8/DMR was an S2!

[ptomsu]

I'm just back from 12 days in Olympic National Park, 10 of those days dealing with adverse weather conditions. I focussed mainly on the Queets, Quinault, and Hoh rainforests, in addition to Sol Duc. A few visits as well to the second and fourth beaches. I took my Arca Swiss 4x5 as well as the S2 with 35/70/180 mm lenses. I was only able to use my view camera for three days out of the entire trip due to the weather, which included driving rain, hail storms, and oftentimes rapidly changing light and wind conditions. The S2 rescued the trip, allowing me to capture this unique landscape despite mother nature turning nasty. Had I only taken the 4x5, I would have come away frustrated. Despite the persistantly damp conditions, the S2 functioned flawlessly; I can vouch that this camera and associated lenses are seriously weather sealed. For me, the S2 is a wonderful compliment to my 4x5 system for fine art landscape applications, and really comes into its own when one needs to capture the light quickly or work in adverse conditions. Once tilt/shift lenses become available, this should increase its appeal for landscape applications. I might add that it was beneficial to once again work effortlessly with moderate telephoto lenses for distillation and compression of landscape elements. While I use a 450mm lens for the 4x5, this requires a bellows change and an extension to 450mm (for infinity focus). Neither of these conditions are particularly amenable to working along the wind driven coastal beaches nor the continuously dripping rainforests.

 

I did not find any shots of the S2 on your page - maybe I am just ignorant? Sorry ..

[jplomley]

Well, I just got back from ONP Thursday morning. I have not even downloaded the images off the Hyperdrives yet. I will post a few images and perhaps write a review of my experience if I get a chance this weekend. I'm involved in the Roadshow event here in Montreal next weekend for the M9 and need to get prepared for that as my next highest priority.

[Googaliser]

First time i see serious people aknowledge the obvious i.e. that the S2 is made for Arab cheikhs and Russian oligarchs. So much the better for them but we, modest R users, are left on the side of the road with our Leitax mounts and EOS adapters.

 

You have every right to be upset. Even one the Leica dealers I have consulted re. the S2 advised caution re. longevity of the system and clearly had many upset R customers. Sadly, I think the days of a mount being relevant for 20 to 50 years is almost past if you want to keep up with the latest imaging devices. And whilst you may not be that bothered - or able to financially justify - changing systems every few years - commercially, the manufacturers can't stand still. Its an arms race out there - and I think we will need to get used to high-end systems evolving perhaps every 6 to 10 years (read - obsolescence after that period). I just noted that in the S2 brochure - they only commit to parts being available for 6 years.... thats quite scary in my view. It seems odd to me that I can get manufacturer parts for a 20 year old mercedes - but may not be able to for a camera system that actually costs more than the car when new... after only 6 years.

Personally, the way I deal with this is treat my equipment very much like a financial asset. I follow the markets closely and try to predict change before it happens. In theory - the pro's/serious amateurs have much better insight into when these changes are likely to occur than the wealthy non-serious guys (increasingly the target market). Thus I can normally get out of my systems for very good money before the price drops like a stone. This always works out cheaper than renting for me.

So I fear, the S2 is a bellweather of things to come. And although it will upset many an R user - it wont create anywhere near the breadth of dissatisfaction than when canon move past the EOS mount or when Nikon move beyond 35mm for their top-end systems. Its anyone's guess when this will happen - but my gut feeling is to bet sooner than later......

[lct]

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....Sadly, I think the days of a mount being relevant for 20 to 50 years is almost past if you want to keep up with the latest imaging devices...

Tell me why i can use my old Nikkors on current Nikon DSLRs.

[Googaliser]

Tell me why i can use my old Nikkors on current Nikon DSLRs.

 

Its great that we can isn't it ? The key word in the point I was trying to make is in bold below.

 

Originally Posted by Googaliser

....Sadly, I think the days of a mount being relevant for 20 to 50 years is almost past if you want to keep up with the latest imaging devices...

 

[lct]

I envy your sense of humour. R users' present situation has nothing to do with the size of the R mount which is larger than Nikon's. It is only due to Leica's decision to offer a larger format to VIPs and successful photographers.

[Googaliser]

I envy your sense of humour. R users' present situation has nothing to do with the size of the R mount which is larger than Nikon's. It is only due to Leica's decision to offer a larger format to VIPs and successful photographers.

 

I see where you are coming from, but sadly the R-mount doesn't appear to be large enough for their next generation of sensor (37.5MP). At some point, sensor physical size becomes the limiting factor. Since max sensor size is indirectly governed by the size of the mount - eventually you have to start again.

Now, have Leica really run out of headroom with the R sensor design ? Probably not. But I suspect they knew they would eventually and have made the change sooner than later. This was clearly a commercial decision - the question is whether it was a premature or cynical one. Guess it depends on where you are standing - I am sympathetic to both causes - and thus fully get why you are upset.

[dominic]

"I envy your sense of humour. R users' present situation has nothing to do with the size of the R mount which is larger than Nikon's. It is only due to Leica's decision to offer a larger format to VIPs and successful photographers."

 

""""""""

Sorry for you to hear that you are neither a VIP nor a successful photographer :-))

 

In Hong-kong where Leica has just opened 2 (yes) Leica stores, beautiful women seem to adore S2...

 

"The times they are a-changing". Old Europa is now a museum with old people lamenting over their pensions. Asia is a swinging continent with rich and young people.

 

Things change !

 

Grand Leica store opening in Hong Kong on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

[lct]

Yes indeed why bother with old customers if Leica's sure to buy to richer ones. L'argent n'a pas d'odeur. Forget it, i don't want to disturb the great audience of the S2. How many of them stood up here BTW? Others must speak Chinese only presumably.

[Grummz]

In Hong-kong where Leica has just opened 2 (yes) Leica stores, beautiful women seem to adore S2...

 

Hmmmm...(imagines two beautiful asian women with S2's, dressed in lingerie, snapping pics of each other and laughing while feeding each other grapes and drinking wine)

 

I think I could get to like Leica's new customer base!

[stunsworth]

Yes indeed why bother with old customers if Leica's sure to buy to richer ones.

 

The problem with the old customers is that they weren't buying enough R kit to justify developing a camera for them.

[Googaliser]

The problem with the old customers is that they weren't buying enough R kit to justify developing a camera for them.

 

The Chinese population is 20 times that of France...

[kidigital]

The problem with the old customers is that they weren't buying enough R kit to justify developing a camera for them.

 

 

The Leica G102 (Geezer) Mount ... Hmmmm ... (imagines two grumpy old men with G102's, dressed in support hose, orthopedic shoes and reading glasses snapping pics of each other and complaining about lens mount flanges while feeding each other prunes and Metamucil.)

 

I think I'm a little tired of Leica's old customer base!

 

Kurt

[Googaliser]

Hmmmm...(imagines two beautiful asian women with S2's, dressed in lingerie, snapping pics of each other and laughing while feeding each other grapes and drinking wine)

 

I think I could get to like Leica's new customer base!

 

They stopped laughing when I took the S2s from them.... future forum members ?

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[mwilliamsphotography]

What a hoot all this is.

 

Sound reasoning is labeled "cognitive dissonance" thus dismissing actual experience and any ability to evaluate image quality separate from "status".

 

Best glass? I've seen no end results to date ... absolutely nothing ... that proves that. Actually, it's been the opposite if end results are the criteria ... and why wouldn't they be?

 

I sold off a complete Nikon system and a lifetime's worth of legacy V and R gear to raise the funds for an S2 ... I had the money all ready to go. Then I tried the S2. Including playing with 170 S2 images in LR for over two months before making any decision.

 

I won't be standing up ... I sat down.

 

But Leica still got my money ... two M9s and a treasure chest worth of fast M glass. I guess after the swift demise of the DMR, abandonment of the R system, and M8 fiasco, I'm a glutton for punishment. Such is the pull of the marquis.

 

Marc

[Googaliser]

What a hoot all this is.

 

Sound reasoning is labeled "cognitive dissonance" thus dismissing actual experience and any ability to evaluate image quality separate from "status".

 

Best glass? I've seen no end results to date ... absolutely nothing ... that proves that. Actually, it's been the opposite if end results are the criteria ... and why wouldn't they be?

 

I sold off a complete Nikon system and a lifetime's worth of legacy V and R gear to raise the funds for an S2 ... I had the money all ready to go. Then I tried the S2. Including playing with 170 S2 images in LR for over two months before making any decision.

 

I won't be standing up ... I sat down.

 

But Leica still got my money ... two M9s and a treasure chest worth of fast M glass. I guess after the swift demise of the DMR, abandonment of the R system, and M8 fiasco, I'm a glutton for punishment. Such is the pull of the marquis.

 

Marc

 

Marc,

How did the S2 stack-up to your H3D39 ? Anything reasonably objective in your findings that you would be prepared to share ?

Rgds

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[jplomley]

How did the S2 stack-up to your H3D39 ?

 

I would be interested in this as well Marc, since my bench-mark for comparison is drum scanned 4x5 transparency film, my primary application being fine art landscape prints.