B&W

[Nei1]

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Does anyone have a clear idea of how a black and white image taken from a raw file is affected by not using the infra red filter.How does the wider spectrum change the image and how would this compare to the sensitivity of ,say,Tri-X?.....thanks...Neil.

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[jaapv]

Two ways. There is basically an out of focus IR image of about four stops underexposure overlaid on your actual image. For B&W that means you will have a lightening of certain grey tones, for instance foliage, a bit like a red filter effect, but there will be a minute sharpness degradation.

[luigi bertolotti]

Comparision of a BW file from RAW with a certain film, like TriX or Agfapan (does it still exist ? 20 years ago Agfapan 25 was one of my beloved films... ) is a very hard exercise... considering also that a certain negative depends on developer... and when (again, many years ago) I worked in darkroom you could achieve significant differences from the same film and different formulas/processes.

In general, my idea is that with M8 is much better to use the UVIR filter also if you plan to get BW files.. as Jaap said, you generally achieve a better sharpness in some details. Problem is if, thinking of BW (and being you a longtime bw film shooter), you are accustomed to the usage of bw filters... working with two filters stacked is someway annoying and can bring to problems of multiple reflections: my opinion is that is better to "apply the bw filter" in the processing phase : software tools are easily available, some highly specialized for BW lovers.

[Nei1]

Thank you Luigi for your answer,I too have lost a loved 25asa film,kodak technical pan,but luckily this was just a flirtation,Im in fact stuck to the readily available,adaptable, Tri-X.You make a good point about multiple filters.

Jaapv,thanks,youve told me exactly what I needed to know,it would be nice to see the same image taken with and without the filter,but from what you say it does not sound too pretty.Im not a fan of the leica glow,(even though I use a pre-asph 35mm lux)and this sounds similar.

thanks again...Neil.

[roguewave]

Comparision of a BW file from RAW with a certain film, like TriX or Agfapan (does it still exist ? 20 years ago Agfapan 25 was one of my beloved films... ) is a very hard exercise... considering also that a certain negative depends on developer... and when (again, many years ago) I worked in darkroom you could achieve significant differences from the same film and different formulas/processes.

In general, my idea is that with M8 is much better to use the UVIR filter also if you plan to get BW files.. as Jaap said, you generally achieve a better sharpness in some details. Problem is if, thinking of BW (and being you a longtime bw film shooter), you are accustomed to the usage of bw filters... working with two filters stacked is someway annoying and can bring to problems of multiple reflections: my opinion is that is better to "apply the bw filter" in the processing phase : software tools are easily available, some highly specialized for BW lovers.

 

 

I agree with Jaap & Luigi. First, the M8 files are excellent for conversion to B&W, particularly with Photoshop. It is VERY important to WB the color DNG first to get the most "natural" (to your eye) color image. When you "Convert to B&W" within Photoshop, each color band can be scaled/adjusted so as to achieve all levels of gray you desire. With layers, you can mix multiple layers to achieve the "look" or tonality you want, for instance in a face. The limitations of the IR cut file are easily overcome by getting to understand Photoshop.

[Nei1]

The thought behind this question was my desire for a black and white sensor in a digital camera,so that I have a similar setup to my m6 loaded with tri-x,i.e,no choice,this is black and white,no sneaking around afterwards convincing myself that it was meant to be in colour or vice versa.Now Im sure this shows a certain lack of fibre on my part but there it is,to me a camera with its intent somewhat controlled feels a great deal more solid and its use more single minded and therefore a more direct link to the few neurons that remain creatively active in an aging brain.

As the mythical b&w sensor seems a long way off my thoughts turned to the M8 that when filterless produces unusable colour images because of the unreal colour balance and leaving me with a b&w camera.However this can just as easily be applied to the b&w filterless image as the camera is recording image that only it sees as I dont think we see in infra-red so the b&w image is as false as the rejected colour image.

Thanks for helping me clear that up.

[luigi bertolotti]

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]....As the mythical b&w sensor seems a long way off ....[/b]

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Is a typical topic of the digital era, when microcomponents MUST be built in ten of thousands, or you'll never see a return on the huge factory investiments they need... A b&w sensor would be simpler to build, would eat less processing power, less RAM... but none makes it ... clearly, the prospected numbers wouldn't pay ...

[roguewave]

The thought behind this question was my desire for a black and white sensor in a digital camera,so that I have a similar setup to my m6 loaded with tri-x,i.e,no choice,this is black and white,no sneaking around afterwards convincing myself that it was meant to be in colour or vice versa.Now Im sure this shows a certain lack of fibre on my part but there it is,to me a camera with its intent somewhat controlled feels a great deal more solid and its use more single minded and therefore a more direct link to the few neurons that remain creatively active in an aging brain.

As the mythical b&w sensor seems a long way off my thoughts turned to the M8 that when filterless produces unusable colour images because of the unreal colour balance and leaving me with a b&w camera.However this can just as easily be applied to the b&w filterless image as the camera is recording image that only it sees as I dont think we see in infra-red so the b&w image is as false as the rejected colour image.

Thanks for helping me clear that up.

 

I think you miss the point. There is no shortcut to excellence. I shoot more film with my M3 & M2 than digital. Every step of analog photography demands competency, if results matter to you. No camera is going to hand over real art work to you. It's up to you to learn all you can about each step in the process & then to fashion a voice or style that let's you present how you envision the frame. This isn't about robotics, it's about human expression through a particular set of instruments. The wet darkroom can't be separated from the processes of camera capture & chemistry. As for a lack of fibre, creativity, inspiration, ..whatever, no chip/sensor is going to replace that.

[wilfredo]

I think you miss the point. There is no shortcut to excellence. I shoot more film with my M3 & M2 than digital. Every step of analog photography demands competency, if results matter to you. No camera is going to hand over real art work to you. It's up to you to learn all you can about each step in the process & then to fashion a voice or style that let's you present how you envision the frame. This isn't about robotics, it's about human expression through a particular set of instruments. The wet darkroom can't be separated from the processes of camera capture & chemistry. As for a lack of fibre, creativity, inspiration, ..whatever, no chip/sensor is going to replace that.

 

I second this.

[Nei1]

I think you miss the point. There is no shortcut to excellence. I shoot more film with my M3 & M2 than digital. Every step of analog photography demands competency, if results matter to you. No camera is going to hand over real art work to you. It's up to you to learn all you can about each step in the process & then to fashion a voice or style that let's you present how you envision the frame. This isn't about robotics, it's about human expression through a particular set of instruments. The wet darkroom can't be separated from the processes of camera capture & chemistry. As for a lack of fibre, creativity, inspiration, ..whatever, no chip/sensor is going to replace that.

I think you miss the point,..........quite what this has to do with a question about a black and white sensor Ive no idea but thanks for the effort.

[roguewave]

I think you miss the point,..........quite what this has to do with a question about a black and white sensor Ive no idea but thanks for the effort.

 

No, I think you miss the point. Light isn't Black & White.

[Nei1]

No, I think you miss the point. Light isn't Black & White.

 

You misunderstand, light is black and white

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