skin tones: DMR vs. M9

[chrismuc]

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I use the DMR and have difficulties getting nice skin tones with ACR (to much pink, too high saturation of red tones). Now I see from S3 preliminary tests the same behavior. Does the M9 render skins similar to the DMR or not? Any recommendation to use another raw converter or is it possible to use special DMR profiles for the DNG raw conversion? Thx.

[Overgaard]

The M9 and DMR has similar skin tones when you do manual white balance as you can see here in the bottom of this page:

leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Pages - Leica M9 Digital Rangefinder Camera - Page 2: Tool of the artist, Leica M9 as reportage camera, wedding phtography - plus Leica DMR and Leica M9 comparison - plus proper skintones with Leica M9

 

The DMR get really nice skintones with the Imacon FlexColor raw converter but that is not a workflow software but one where you have to open, adjust and save each file seperately. Look down at this page: leica.overgaard.dk - Thorsten Overgaard's Leica Pages - Leica DMR dSLR digital back sample photos and test

 

The M9, when using preset kelvins such as "Tungsten" should be adjusted with desaturation of red and orange to hit the right skin tones. But with my experiment with manual white balance it seem more a definition of the preset white balance settings in the M9 rather than a sensor thing.

 

The M9 and DMR sensors has the Kodachrome as ideal look which is different, I guess (understatement) of CMOS sensors.

[leicamr]

I have never been able to use ACR with the DMR's DNG files due to the same issues that you have experienced. The magenta colour issues I have had are typically indoor available light shots. I use PhaseOne's Capture One. The colours and tones are excellent.

 

regards

 

Mark

[chrismuc]

Thorsten and Mark,

many thx for sharing your experiences.

I will try your suggestions and report:-)

Christoph

[adan]

If you use ACR and go with Adobe's default "Standard" profile, or Leica's "Embedded" profile, you will get pinkish skin.

 

As I say every time a color rendition question comes up - I have NEVER had a camera for which Adobe's canned profiles are correct. I ALWAYS do my own profile using a Gretag MacBeth color checker, and it is always different from Adobe's profile, and it is always better.

 

Never blame a camera (or ACR, which will produce fine color if given a chance) for the way Adobe or anyone else sets up their defaults. Profile it yourself.

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[gib_robinson]

Andy,

 

What's your routine for creating the ACR profile?

 

Personally, I have difficulty profiling because I'm red/green color blind.

 

--Gib

[chrismuc]

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Andy,

yes, please be so kind and explain a bit more in detail how to generate such a profile using a color card.

Or maybe a link to such an explanation.

Your sample picture looks impressively fine!

Thanks

Christoph

[chrismuc]

... okay, a short search:-)

 

X-Rite: Get exactly the color you need, every time, anywhere in the world.

 

Andy, you are right, this really works cool!

 

Thanks again

C.

[adan]

The procedure I use, learned from an article by the late Bruce Fraser at Out of Gamut: Calibrating Camera Raw in Photoshop CS | CreativePro.com, is:

 

1. Find target RGB values for all the Colorchecker patches on the Web (Google "Colorchecker RGB" and there are lots out there - note that they vary according to your working color space (Adobe 1998 or ProPhoto or whatever).

 

2. Shoot the Colorchecker under neutral (e.g. 10 am or 2 pm) sunlight and open in ACR

 

3. Set white balance off a medium gray patch in the image of the Colorchecker

 

4. Set exposure/brightness by reading one of the medium gray patches and adjusting to the published value for that patch (e.g. 55R/55G/55B)

 

5. Switch to the Camera Calibration pane in ACR. Choose either "Adobe Standard" or "Embedded" as a starting point for your own calibration (You have to use one or the other, and Adobe Standard is better than Embedded (IMHO) even though both need further correction.)

 

6. Read the black patch and correct Shadow Tint if needed - usually a very small correction.

 

7. Read the Green patch and adjust the Hue and Saturation sliders for Green until the RGB values for the patch match the published target values for that patch.

 

8. Repeat for the Blue and then Red patches, using the Blue and Red Hue and Saturation sliders

 

9. Repeat steps 7 and 8, because the value for other colors usually change just slightly when one color is set.

 

10. After 2-3 repeats, the colors are probably correct and stable.

 

11. Save a "preset" - calibration only - name it something like "My M9 calib Daylight"

 

12. If desired, "Save new Camera Raw defaults" which will make all the settings for that particular image into the default settings for ANY M9 image in future (or past, for that matter).

 

13. If desired, create additional profiles using the same steps 2-11, for Tungsten, fluorescent, low-energy fluoro, Halogen, your own flash, or any and all other light sources you may shoot under. Save as presets with their own name - but NOT as "new defaults." Apply these presets from the presets list (little sliders icon in ACR) to individual shots as needed.

 

I gather the X-Rite Passport software essentially just automates this process. I'm not sure I trust the X-rite engineers' decisions about correct color any more than I trust Adobe's - but if it works for you, that's fine. Realistically, there is at least a couple of points leeway. Most people just can't see a difference between, say, skin that is 160R/138G/116B or 162R/136G/114B.

 

RE: color blindness - the nice thing about this calibration procedure is that it is based entirely on massaging numbers until they match, not judging the color visually. In theory you could do it with a B&W monitor.

 

I redo the calibration process, or at least check the values again, every time there is a FW upgrade or a new version of Camera Raw - you never know what changes were made to color handling by Leica or Adobe that may throw off a previous profile/calibration.

[gib_robinson]

Thank you very much, Andy.

 

--Gib