tom in mpls Posted May 21, 2010 Share #141 Posted May 21, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) A carpenter has both a hammer and a saw... Perhaps a more apt analogy might be that a carpenter has both a rip saw and a cross cut saw. They both cut wood, but are used for different situations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 21, 2010 Posted May 21, 2010 Hi tom in mpls, Take a look here Telegraph's M9 Review. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Rick Posted May 21, 2010 Share #142 Posted May 21, 2010 So what Leica(s) are you currently using, Alan? Regards, Bill Alan, he has asked this question at least twice and I've missed your answer. I'd be curious also, do you have an M8 or the M9? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdubois Posted May 21, 2010 Share #143 Posted May 21, 2010 So what on earth is your interest in this thread? Working my way up to 15,000 posts perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted May 21, 2010 Share #144 Posted May 21, 2010 What difference does it make if it has a Leica or not? He doesn't want to answer it and fine with it. On the other hand Alan... Jesus man... You want Leica to make a Leica and you forgot to tell Leica how to name the new camera as well. I was thinking something like M3DsII. You need all these features, you gotta be kidding, the camera will be bigger than a MF camera is now. Do you expect some day that them cameras are gonna be able to photograph molecules? Or dark matter? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 21, 2010 Share #145 Posted May 21, 2010 Working my way up to 15,000 posts perhaps? Looks more like stirring the pot for the hell of it from where I'm standing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted May 21, 2010 Share #146 Posted May 21, 2010 the camera will be bigger than a MF camera is now. This is the often-repeated defense of the status quo. But you can't dismiss every request for improvement as requiring a bigger camera. If a professional photographer wants: better LCD better high ISO faster frame rate bigger memory buffer frame counter on top (like every Leica since the early days?) no crazy baseplate from the film era better info in the viewfinder (such as the exact exposure compensation setting) better battery automatic sensor cleaning 1-week turnaround time for most repairs good tethering ... none of those necessarily require a bigger camera. They do require resources, however, so it's understandable that Leica has to prioritize and deliver improvements on its own schedule ... in future models. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 21, 2010 Share #147 Posted May 21, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) What difference does it make if it has a Leica or not?He doesn't want to answer it and fine with it. It speaks to why he is here, get it! Come on, you post smart stuff, you do get why some of these people are here? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ecar Posted May 21, 2010 Share #148 Posted May 21, 2010 This is the often-repeated defense of the status quo. But you can't dismiss every request for improvement as requiring a bigger camera. If a professional photographer wants: better LCD better high ISO faster frame rate bigger memory buffer frame counter on top (like every Leica since the early days?) no crazy baseplate from the film era better info in the viewfinder (such as the exact exposure compensation setting) better battery automatic sensor cleaning 1-week turnaround time for most repairs Pretty close to my dream wish list. And I'm not a pro. ... none of those necessarily require a bigger camera. They do require resources, however, so it's understandable that Leica has to prioritize and deliver improvements on its own schedule ... in future models. Exactly my point in a post above. Give Leica some time, and it will come. But then, DSLRs will have evolved too (possibly faster)... and there will be another thread like this one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted May 21, 2010 Share #149 Posted May 21, 2010 Rick's right. I for instance make no secret of the fact that I never wanted an M8. I don't have an M9 yet, but that has more to do with financial priorities than anything else; I am a "Gentleman Amateur" not a "Player" and I cut my cloth accordingly. It's always worthwhile to understand someone's motivations - enlightened self-interest is the most powerful motivator of all, IMO - so I am merely trying to understand why Alan, when he has a myriad of other tools to choose from, is so insistent that Leica should follow a me-too strategy and disappear into the mists of mediocrity alongside so many other great names that lost their way, their mojo and their loyal customer base by trying to be something they were not. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted May 21, 2010 Share #150 Posted May 21, 2010 why Alan, when he has a myriad of other tools to choose from, is so insistent that Leica should follow a me-too strategy and disappear He isn't. He has us "admit" that all those absolutely necessary features can not be included in a Leica, hence we're all fools for not buying Sony. It's called "word of mouth advertising". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdubois Posted May 21, 2010 Share #151 Posted May 21, 2010 Looks more like stirring the pot for the hell of it from where I'm standing. I believe that my post no. 127 was to the point and quite relevant to this thread. You're clearly out, yet again, to have the last word and you are very welcome to it because to me you're pretty unimportant and in my opinion full of it. You have a habit of bullying people who do not share your opinions. Well that won't work with me chum! Last time you responded in this fashion you tried to laugh it off with a half hearted apology by means of a PM, blaming your poor manners on a bad day ; of course accompanied by a smiley. This time don't bother because I'm not really very interested in what you have to say. Dubois Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted May 21, 2010 Share #152 Posted May 21, 2010 Youve illustrated my point well. I have a fine day. The same to you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 21, 2010 Share #153 Posted May 21, 2010 What is interesting (to me) is that, I understand someone who comes here and debates in the Leica Camera Forum the merits of DSLR and EVIL and the lack of features on the M9. I get that. But, it gets a little old when they come here and keep going over the same stuff, over and over and over and over... ad nauseum. Then you find out that Alan doesn't even own one. And, I don't think zlatkob has the camera either. But, they still want to comment on LUF what they think is right for owners of a camera that THEY DON'T OWN. And, yes, of course it is fine for anyone to have an opinion and voice it here. But, after several hundred posts on the same same theme, I begin to get the idea that they are either a little thick, they just want to force everyone else to conform to their view, or they enjoy getting thrashed by the other members time and again. Here is one of the last go arounds in March(there are so many others). Same stuff, same characters, and the same really beaten dead horse. http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/103986-listing-m9-issues-suggestions-possible-improvements.html Which reminds me of a joke. A hunter goes out and finds a bear and shoots him with his old rifle. The bear is so annoyed that he turns around and grabs the gun and throws it in the woods. Then, the bear grabs the hunter and drags him over to a log and buggers him. The next year the hunter buys a better gun and heads out to the woods and waits outside the bear's den. When the bear emerges from hibernation the hunter shoots the bear again. Annoyed once again, the bear grabs the gun and throws it in the woods. Then the bear grabs the hunter and drags him over to a log and buggers him. The next year, the hunter buys the best bear gun made and heads out to the woods and waits outside the bears den. When the bear emerges from hibernation the hunter shoots the bear again. Annoyed once again, the bear grabs the gun and throws it in the woods. Once again, the bear grabs the hunter and while dragging him over to the log says to the hunter, "Something tells me you you aren't here just for the hunting." So, like bill says (and the bear figured out) sometimes people have motivations that help us understand why they enjoy hunting. Or, something like that... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
zlatkob Posted May 21, 2010 Share #154 Posted May 21, 2010 Bill - You always seem to get it right. The rest of you, so glad Leica won't listen to you... Well, thank goodness Leica listened to the whiners, complainers and armchair CEO's who asked for a full-frame M, with better high ISO and without an IR problem. Because Leica listened, many people who wouldn't buy the M8 have now bought the M9 or plan to. There was a time when Leica defenders and status quo-ers portrayed every deficiency of the M8 as some sort of virtue: "We don't need higher ISO." "Excess IR sensitivity is good for black & white photos." "A cropped sensor uses the best part of the lens." "I don't care about good auto white balance; real photographers always set it manually." "Ten megapixels is enough for 40-inch prints, just as good as 4x5." So glad Leica didn't listen to them. P.S. RickLeica, yes I do have it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 21, 2010 Share #155 Posted May 21, 2010 zlatkob - I stand corrected on that, sorry about that. And, everything you just named in your last post falls into the category of advancements of technology (and I agree with them/you) and they are not adding to what is essential and simple, which is the Leica credo. It is the other stuff that begins to take the Leica off course that is not wanted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted May 21, 2010 Share #156 Posted May 21, 2010 I believe that my post no. 127 was to the point and quite relevant to this thread. You're clearly out, yet again, to have the last word and you are very welcome to it because to me you're pretty unimportant and in my opinion full of it. You have a habit of bullying people who do not share your opinions. Well that won't work with me chum! Last time you responded in this fashion you tried to laugh it off with a half hearted apology by means of a PM, blaming your poor manners on a bad day ; of course accompanied by a smiley. This time don't bother because I'm not really very interested in what you have to say. Dubois Wow, remind me to never send you a confidential PM apologizing. You just run and tattle to mom (the Forum) and then claim you don't really care what he says. I have lost complete respect for you. I'd say that would be it for you on this forum for a lot of members, including me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 21, 2010 Share #157 Posted May 21, 2010 ...you are very welcome to it because to me you're pretty unimportant and in my opinion full of it. You have a habit of bullying people who do not share your opinions. Well that won't work with me chum! It's a forum. People express opinions, others disagree with them. Provided it's kept civil that shouldn't be a problem to anyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted May 21, 2010 Share #158 Posted May 21, 2010 Well, thank goodness Leica listened to the whiners, complainers and armchair CEO's who asked for a full-frame M, with better high ISO and without an IR problem. Leica always wanted to provide a digital M with a full frame sensor. The technology wasn't there when they developed the M8 - in fact they said that a full frame sensor didn't give acceptable results, so they'd obviously tried it. It was there when they developed the M9. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted May 21, 2010 Share #159 Posted May 21, 2010 You don't get it, chaps. Most M users just dream to do like HCB. 40 years ago people using a Leicameter were not considered serious photographers by them. The fun part of it is that photogs adulating minimalism don't stop praising cameras needing coding, filtering and chimping to work properly. Let alone the skills they have to develop in PP to avoid minimal problems like color shifts and moiré. That's life folks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
diogenis Posted May 21, 2010 Share #160 Posted May 21, 2010 But, it gets a little old when they come here and keep going over the same stuff, over and over and over and over... ad nauseum. Then you find out that Alan doesn't even own one. And, I don't think zlatkob has the camera either. But, they still want to comment on LUF what they think is right for owners of a camera that THEY DON'T OWN. And, yes, of course it is fine for anyone to have an opinion and voice it here. But, after several hundred posts on the same same theme, I begin to get the idea that they are either a little thick, they just want to force everyone else to conform to their view, or they enjoy getting thrashed by the other members time and again. Here is one of the last go arounds in March(there are so many others). Same stuff, same characters, and the same really beaten dead horse. I second that. Maybe it is time for some more active forum moderation. Whatever the issue in the post, some will find a way to ask for live views, EVFs, smiling faces and the lot. Always. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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