Any Fast VC Lens w/o Signifigant Focus Shift?

[WestMichigan]

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Hi All,

as I look around at the options for Fast lenses I might actually afford! The Voigtlander M and LSM offerings really stand out as quite respectable options, especially at their price points. BUT! OH there's always a 'but' in life isn't there. I keep bumping into posts from folks complaining about, coping with, asking about their fast 'X'mm VC which is exhibiting troublesome Focus Shift as they use it.

 

My Queries:

a) Is there a VC Fast Lens or Lenses without Focus Shift or which exhibit insignifigant Focus Shift?

 

Is Fast Primes with Focus Shift just a fact of life except for select options from the 'solms mothership' costing many thousands of dollars?

 

Hmm maybe a good follow query to add:

 

c) Is there a list or reference of lenses which don't exhibit focus shift?

 

Looking forward to the input folks may have on the point

 

Thanks, Richard in Michigan

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[JSU]

I have the CV 28/1.9, 35/1.2 & 50/1.5 and have not seen any focus shift at any focus distance or f-stop with my lenses.

 

I use my 35/1.2 at least once a week and count it as part of the essential kit of lenses.

 

The 28/1.9 and 50/1.5 have been discontinued by Cosina, however they regularly show up used in the usual places and I recently saw that a USA dealer still has new stock of the 50/1.5.

[thompsonkirk]

JSU has mentioned the ones that don't shift; Reidreviews (subscription site dealing often with Leica) tells you which recent ones do.

 

Kirk

[jaques]

My 50mm f1.5 Nokton ASPH is superb glass- focus seems to be spot on wide open. Very sharp as well. For the price I think it is an absolute winner- you can't go wrong.

[WestMichigan]

Thanks JSU and others who responded to my inquiry.

 

The information makes me feel much better about diving into the CV Lens Pool as part of the Rangefinder Experience.

 

Richard in Michigan

 

I have the CV 28/1.9, 35/1.2 & 50/1.5 and have not seen any focus shift at any focus distance or f-stop with my lenses.

 

I use my 35/1.2 at least once a week and count it as part of the essential kit of lenses.

 

The 28/1.9 and 50/1.5 have been discontinued by Cosina, however they regularly show up used in the usual places and I recently saw that a USA dealer still has new stock of the 50/1.5.

[Guest Chris M]

Is it imperative that you use such a fast lens? I only ask because for a 1-1.5 stop difference you could own used Leica glass that would that would be just as good or better for the same prices, and I'm talking about (older Leica glass) 20+ years old or older, just another avenue you can go down. Hope this helps:)

 

chris m.

[WestMichigan]

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Ola' Chris,

you ask a Terrific question! There is zero imperative that I use such fast glass, but -there is always a but- I'd like to explore using a Fast Lens. Simple as That. I fully and firmly intend to also be exploring the Leica M and LSM back catalog along with lenses from assorted other manufacturers that will mount in one manner or another to an M camera. I have been following the M8 and Old Glass thread quite closely and see a lot of fun not only in trying 20 yr old glass, but 50 or 60 year old glass as well.

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/113481-m8-old-glass.html

 

Further on the 'imperative' question, I'm a person living with disabilities and photography for me is an exercise solely involved with my love for the medium along with the joy of presenting family, friends, and others, momentos of people and events which may touch their heads and their hearts. Fancy words for "My Hobby". There is nothing 'imperative' for me to dive into digital rf photography, I'm a long time slr guy who actually shoots with a 50 summi and a 90 elmarit on my eos dslr. I actually don't even own a 'fast' slr lens and never have. F2 has always been fast enough for me in most situations. I just want to play with faster and as a part of getting into Leica rf, as well.

 

Thanks for the question,

Richard in Michigan

 

 

Is it imperative that you use such a fast lens? I only ask because for a 1-1.5 stop difference you could own used Leica glass that would that would be just as good or better for the same prices, and I'm talking about (older Leica glass) 20+ years old or older, just another avenue you can go down. Hope this helps:)

 

chris m.

[ezc203]

What's your preferred focal length (with consideration to the 1.33 crop factor)?

 

I use and love the CV 35 Nokton f1.4, it works wonders for me for B&W photos (both on my M8 and my Tri-X), not a big fan of how the colors come out of Cosina glasses, BUT for speed in B&W, it's GREAT bang for your buck.

 

Also, in terms of focus-shift (as I mentioned in another thread) I have not experienced any problems. That said, I usually shoot at 1.4 - 2.8, but do, when needed, roam into the 5.6 - 11 range, but very very RARELY.

 

If you want a good performer all around (with color as well); I'd say go for a Summicron or maybe a Zeiss Biogon.

[WestMichigan]

HiYa Eddy,

my preferred focal length(s) recently have actually been the (effective) 80mm and 154mm I get from my R mount Summicron Fifty and Elmarit 90 I use on my 1.6x EOS 20D, but that's because they're the two best lenses I own! Simple as that. But - appearing so regularly in my posts here! - Tele's aren't Rangefinder's strong suit AND I'm in love with good glass, not short tele's. Give me a Good Lens and I'll figure out how to use it. Period. Be it wide, middle, or long focal lengths, primes or zooms, prestigious brands or no names, my only measure is can I get a 'great photograph' with it and ultimately that hinges mainly on 'Me' the photographer.

That being said, I really love Prime Lenses for the discipline they instill AND the freedom they give from the Tyranny of the Zoom Ring by minimizing the variables and helping one focus on the scene, the subject, and the photographs we create. Which is one of the reasons I'm doing the prep work for giving Leica Rangefinder Photography a go - it's all primes, it's all about minimizing distractions, etc etc.

The CV 35mm Nokton f1.4 you've praised is pretty high on my list at this point for a 'fast' lens, but nothing is set in stone yet. The funds to make my equipment purchases is waiting on various beauracracies to do their thing and is either days away or months and months away, so what I get might change. My impulse is to go for the really fast CV f1.2 35 or their f1.1 50, but my SLR to RF transition probably would be helped by not coping with razor thin depth of fields &/or unbalanced 'kit' from heavy lenses. :-)

 

Thanks

R. in Mi.

 

 

 

What's your preferred focal length (with consideration to the 1.33 crop factor)?

 

I use and love the CV 35 Nokton f1.4, it works wonders for me for B&W photos (both on my M8 and my Tri-X), not a big fan of how the colors come out of Cosina glasses, BUT for speed in B&W, it's GREAT bang for your buck.

 

Also, in terms of focus-shift (as I mentioned in another thread) I have not experienced any problems. That said, I usually shoot at 1.4 - 2.8, but do, when needed, roam into the 5.6 - 11 range, but very very RARELY.

 

If you want a good performer all around (with color as well); I'd say go for a Summicron or maybe a Zeiss Biogon.

[JSU]

...my preferred focal length(s) recently have actually been the (effective) 80mm and 154mm I get from my R mount Summicron Fifty and Elmarit 90 I use on my 1.6x EOS 20D, but that's because they're the two best lenses I own!

 

The CV 35mm Nokton f1.4 you've praised is pretty high on my list at this point for a 'fast' lens, but nothing is set in stone yet. .... My impulse is to go for the really fast CV f1.2 35 or their f1.1 50, but my SLR to RF transition probably would be helped by not coping with razor thin depth of fields &/or unbalanced 'kit' from heavy lenses. :-)

 

Richard--

 

One lens not overly mentioned is the CV 40/1.4, which pretty much replicates the FoV of a normal lens on the M8. I have never used one so my opinion is hearsay but I have heard nothing but good about it including nary a mention of focus shift when stopped down.

 

Early last year I made the leap to a digital RF with an Epson R-D1S, which is an excellent camera. It doesn't have the file size of the M8 and certainly is small next to the M9, but for many situations files from the Epson are plenty large enough.

 

The performance of the Epson at elevated ISO's is at least as good as the M8. Where I was frustrated with the Epson was the 1.55x crop factor which worked against my preference of wide angle lenses. The other issue with the R-D1S that bothered me is the shorter effective range finder base compared to the M8, which can be an issue with focussing accuracy for fast lenses used wide open.

 

I offer this as an alternate consideration, not to incur any wrath amongst Leica Users. Understand that half a year after getting the Epson I eventually had the M8.2 and I'm glad I did. But if you are comfortable with the 1.6x crop factor of the Canon DSLR then the 1.55x crop factor of the Epson DRF might not be an issue.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I have the CV 35/1.2. If you are looking for one lens that is exceptional on a M8 this is it. I am critical of digital noise and prefer not to use my M8.2 above ISO 640, as such having a f-1.2 lens in the 35mm focal length is a real plus for me. I don't necessarily use it wide open to achieve limited DoF, rather I prefer to keep the ISO as low as possible to limit digital noise.

 

I would also suggest you consider the CV 50/1.5, it is just plain good. It is smaller and lighter than the CV 35/1.2, balances well, is very sharp and offers pleasing out of focus areas (bokeh).

 

Good luck transitioning from a DSLR to a DRF. I appreciate Leicas for being small, quiet and discreet, obvious traits that benefit for doing candid, people photos.

 

Regards,

 

--JSU

[Xmas]

If you are buying then lens in a shop, take M8, focus target and ruler and try it out, A lens may be off but not shift, or shift or both.

 

Noel

[250swb]

Richard--

 

One lens not overly mentioned is the CV 40/1.4, which pretty much replicates the FoV of a normal lens on the M8. I have never used one so my opinion is hearsay but I have heard nothing but good about it including nary a mention of focus shift when stopped down.

 

I'll put that right. The 40mm f1.4 definitely has focus shift, its not anywhere near sharp at f1.4, and the bokeh is ugly (or characterful). Other than that its a good lens if you get it in focus (its not so bad using film), and if you use f4 to f8 its sharp enough.

 

Steve

[JSU]

I'll put that right. The 40mm f1.4 definitely has focus shift, its not anywhere near sharp at f1.4, and the bokeh is ugly (or characterful). Other than that its a good lens if you get it in focus (its not so bad using film), and if you use f4 to f8 its sharp enough.

 

Steve

 

This isn't meant as flame or an argument but just a thought: you mention the CV 40/1.4 has both focus shift and is not anywhere near sharp at f1.4, could it be that in fact it isn't in focus at f1.4 and as such the issue could be that the lens isn't properly adjusted for a given body or the RF in the body might be out of adjustment? Again, I ask not not out of rudeness or to be inflammatory, as numerous lenses are not calibrated for fine use with the M8 while others, particularly the ZM Sonnars, exhibit a definite shift when stopped down. I am perplexed that you find a lens to exhibit focus shift while also being unsharp wide open, this sounds to me like a failure of calibration between lens and body.

 

THNX,

--JSU

[Islandmike]

Hi Richard

 

I thoroughly enjoy using a CV Nokton 50/1.5 on my M8, especially for portrait work. I haven't noticed focus shift, but at large apertures, any forward or backward movement that I or my subject may make has, of course, a considerable effect on achieving the right point of focus.

 

When shooting, I will often try to shift my position fore or aft a little while watching the image superimposition in the rangefinder to gain correct sharp focus.

 

The beauty of the f/1.5 aperture is that the lens' best performance comes in at around f/4, when there is a little extra depth of field to cope with subject or photographer movement.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

[WestMichigan]

Hello JSU,

thanks for your input on the CV 40 f1.4 option. I spotted that lens on the CameraQuest site and immediately caught onto it being very appropriate as a 'Standard Lens' on the M8. I am wishing I had a retailer 'locally' so I could bayonet some of these choices onto a body to see/feel/touch what something is like to physically use without paying (what for me) is a ton of money to test drive a lens!

Thanks for the input on the RD1, too. I had actually thought I was going to be getting one of those as my 'digitial rangefinder' because the M's cost so dang much. The RD1's are perfectly usable, and you're right, the 1.6x crop isn't a huge obstacle for me, but the collapse of the price of M8's in the used market changed my thinking. They're still twice the price (give or take), but for that money I get a smaller crop factor, a 'real' leica rangefinder usage experience, and the bonus of getting to dabble in Infrared Photography without paying big bucks for someone to muck with a dSLR to shoot IR. All added up, it makes sense for me to go for the M8 over an RD1.

 

Richard

 

 

Richard--

 

One lens not overly mentioned is the CV 40/1.4, which pretty much replicates the FoV of a normal lens on the M8. I have never used one so my opinion is hearsay but I have heard nothing but good about it including nary a mention of focus shift when stopped down.

 

Early last year I made the leap to a digital RF with an Epson R-D1S, which is an excellent camera. It doesn't have the file size of the M8 and certainly is small next to the M9, but for many situations files from the Epson are plenty large enough.

 

The performance of the Epson at elevated ISO's is at least as good as the M8. Where I was frustrated with the Epson was the 1.55x crop factor which worked against my preference of wide angle lenses. The other issue with the R-D1S that bothered me is the shorter effective range finder base compared to the M8, which can be an issue with focussing accuracy for fast lenses used wide open.

 

I offer this as an alternate consideration, not to incur any wrath amongst Leica Users. Understand that half a year after getting the Epson I eventually had the M8.2 and I'm glad I did. But if you are comfortable with the 1.6x crop factor of the Canon DSLR then the 1.55x crop factor of the Epson DRF might not be an issue.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I have the CV 35/1.2. If you are looking for one lens that is exceptional on a M8 this is it. I am critical of digital noise and prefer not to use my M8.2 above ISO 640, as such having a f-1.2 lens in the 35mm focal length is a real plus for me. I don't necessarily use it wide open to achieve limited DoF, rather I prefer to keep the ISO as low as possible to limit digital noise.

 

I would also suggest you consider the CV 50/1.5, it is just plain good. It is smaller and lighter than the CV 35/1.2, balances well, is very sharp and offers pleasing out of focus areas (bokeh).

 

Good luck transitioning from a DSLR to a DRF. I appreciate Leicas for being small, quiet and discreet, obvious traits that benefit for doing candid, people photos.

 

Regards,

 

--JSU

[ampguy]

My single sample of the 40/1.4 MC had very little shift. No more than my Leica lenses.

 

28/1.9, 50/1.5, and 35/1.7 were all a bit soft wide open (as is the 40/1.4) but shift was minimal on them, a bit on the 50/1.5, but I was using it mostly wide open.

 

 

I'll put that right. The 40mm f1.4 definitely has focus shift, its not anywhere near sharp at f1.4, and the bokeh is ugly (or characterful). Other than that its a good lens if you get it in focus (its not so bad using film), and if you use f4 to f8 its sharp enough.

 

Steve

[Summi Luchs]

My CV 35/1.4 definitely has focus shift too. But nevertheless it can produce optically good pictures. It is absolutely ussable at 1.4 - 1.8 (focus is correct here) and over f/4 (DOF compensates for focus shift here). I simply avoid f-stops betewen 2 and 4.

[Maggie_O]

The first copy I owned of the Nokton 35/1.4 had terrible focus shift problems, awful resolution and still somehow made gorgeous frames. I exchanged it for a copy with no focus shift, better resolution and it's probably my most-used lens on my M8, thanks to its speed, FOV, handling and the gorgeous way it draws. Here's 663 photos (with more added later today, when I upload a batch from Saturday's trip to the Joslyn Art Museum and environs in Omaha, NE):

 

Voigtländer Nokton Classic 35/1.4

 

Here's a few of my favorite color frames from the M8-Nokton Classic combo:

 

Thunderstorm At Highway 2, May 2, 2010

 

Mister B And Brat, March, 2010

 

Star Spiral, Decmber, 2008

 

Henry and Betsy, On the Pier, November, 2008

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Maggie_O]

Here's a few B&Ws from that same combo:

 

Mollie, Bowling, Parkway Lanes, May, 2009

 

Smoking Candle, July 2009

 

Mom At Her Computer, July, 2009

[WestMichigan]

Hi Maggie'O!

Wonderful images you've shared. The image of Molly waiting on the ball return is wonderful, that Thunderstorm shot has an 'I know it's real, but that looks sci-fi!" quality I love, but I absolutely adore the image of Mr. B and Brat! The framing is great, the scene itself is great, the look in their eyes, the set of their mouths, and their body language, all come together fabuously.

 

Mega Kudos!

 

I've probably revisited the image 3 or 4 times this afternoon and I sent the 'thread link' to my girlfriend to check it out.

 

It's a close race, but it edges out that wonderful Jupiter Lens shot of the dog with the wind blowing his hair back.

 

Very Nice.

 

Richard in Michigan